Did Lucas make Anakin whiny on purpose?

Was it Lucas intention to make Anakin into a whiny character that sometimes acts like a douche (mainly in AOTC)? I mean if he wanted us to dislike the character of Anakin at the end of the Prequel trilogy, we already had Anakin's dark deeds to do that. So what was the point of Anakin acting emo and so whiny (think that's how you spell it)? Did Lucas intentionally do that to make us dislike Anakin even more? Or was it never intentional? What do you think?

 

People in that age group are all a bunch of whiny, douches, anyway, so I don't see the issue, if there is one. lol

 

Yeah, I think at that age, it's rather normal. And, to be honest, Anakin's whining wasn't that egregious. Probably the worst scene was when he started complaining about Obi-Wan while Padme was packing. Although even then, it sounded more like frustrated venting than pure whining given that he concedes that "[he] know" when Padme says that all mentors point out our flaws to help us grow. I don't consider his speech/rant/breakdown/whatever-you-want-to-call-it after his mother's death to be "whining" given that, well, y'know, the kid's mom just died. I figure he has the right to be a bit upset.

Besides that, the only other big outburst he had was when he was denied the rank of Master, but that was more controlled.

Well, like father like son in any case.

 

You're exaggerating. Anakin complained about things, but you need to consider the circumstances. Anakin complained about being held back and stuff, but that was related to his past as a slave. He hated being treated like he was "lesser than" or like he was a small, insiginifcant child because it reminded him of how Watto treated him. And didn't you notice how Anakin hated at not being made a Master? Well, once again he is a former slave so the word "Master" has a special meaning to him. At least he, unlike Luke, had REAL reasons to complain/whine. And I agree with PiettsHat that Anakin's "whining" isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Besides, it wasn't really whining most of the time. It was just venting. But in the novelizations, he actually *did* whiine, especially in the ROTS novel. Then again, I've never been quite a fan of that novel...

 

I believe it was made on purpose. GL didn't want to show an "aesthetically pleasing" fall of the hero so instead he opted for something different. It was pretty brave of him to tell the story in that way.

 

All teens aren't whiny.

I would have liked it much more if Anakin hadn't been whiny but had just been more of a free spirit. Like he doesn't seem to take anything seriously and is just really reckless and laughs everything off.

We saw Obi Wan critique Anakin for being reckless while they were chasing the bounty hunter. If we could have seen many more scenes of Anakin being a hero while breaking the rules, it would have gone a long way to defining his character. Maybe if Anakin was well known and loved by most people as a big hero, it would have made his turn seem like a bigger surprise.

 

When did he whine in the ROTS novel? I don't remember.

 

I actually just finished watching AOTC, and I agree that Anakin is a bit on the whiny side, but let's not forget:

"But I was gonna go to the Tosche Station to pick up some power converters!"

and

"Yeah, that's what you said when Biggs and Tank left...Looks like I'm going nowhere. I'm gonna go finish cleaning those droids."

I think that Luke was JUST as whiny (really only in ANH) as Anakin.

Although I think it works well that Anakin is that way. I mean he's what, 19? Still a teenager with the whole hormone thing going on, and anyhow, he NEEDS to have that kind of "unstable personality" in order to make his turn to the Darkside believable. If he was some unyielding hero character type, (like Obi-Wan) it just wouldn't be believable for someone like that to turn. He has to be someone who is...emotionally vulnerable.

 

I'll agree that Anakin should be emotionally vulnerable, but his turn to the darkside could have been done a little better. Even if he seemed like an unyielding hero, he could have been turned evil any number of ways. There was Palpatine already twisting him and Anakin's frustration with the Jedi Counsel. I would have written off Padme and had Anakin fall for a girl that was a spy of Palpatine. This other woman would have also slowly turned Anakin evil.

As it is, all the elements are there for Anakin's turn. He killed off the Raiders that killed his mother. Palpatine was brainwashing him. It just needed a little more. Padme needed to die in Anakin's sight before he started attacking the Jedi.

The pressure was building, but the transition was lacking.

 

Well, he did complain about being treated like he was kid if that counts. And then his outburst at not being made a Master was worse than it was in the movie. He said "How dare you?! How dare you! I am the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy!" How can you deny Mastership to me?! or something like that.

Also, I agree with those who say we didn't see enough of Anakin's heroism. He was obviously a big war hero, a poster-boy, and known as the Hero With No Fear. He was a hero, but since the Prequel story is limited, we didn't get to see enough of his heroism.

But I disagree with those who say Anakin's fall wasn't set up too well. Remember the Tusken Raiders? He killed a tribe of them, which is mass murder. Then he killed a literally unarmed Dooku in cold blood. He also expressed distrust of Obi Wan and the Jedi Order as a whole. We saw quite a bit of Anakin's darkness in the Prequels in my opinion.

 

Anakin was very well known around the galaxy for his exploits during the clone wars...he typically was always featured on the holonet news reports and was a favorite of the politicians and was regarded as a cunning and powerful Jedi by it's members....also Anakin was much more whiny on screen than he was in the novels...this is a result of Hollywood actors not getting proper direction...as Hayden stated was a big issue with Lucas

 

I think the points in which we see Anakin in the films ? specifically during AOTC and ROTS ? are not good examples from which we are meant to gage Anakin as a person. You have to remember that the situations which he finds himself in within both films are very stressful and new thus skewing Anakin?s personality. It is important to note that Anakin is painted as a person who does not deal with stress particularly well, and when his flaws are awakened, he responds with a ?whinny? attitude.

We get a glimpse of Anakin?s personality during specific stages where-in he is removed from the stressful environment. For AOTC this is can be seen in the Speeder Chase where-in we see Anakin as a free-spirit laughing off the experience. This is because he is largely removed from both Padme and the thoughts of his mother largely through distraction. In AOTC he is obviously very stressed having dreams of his mother and having just been reunited with Padme; this awakens Anakin?s flaws of attachment, stressing him, thus giving him the attitude we see. The Speeder Chase and a couple of other examples in the films are meant to illustrate Anakin?s un-stressed personality.

Then we are introduced to the Anakin in The Clone Wars. After his stressful experience we get to see the true Anakin in his ?natural? theatre. Having been given the position of Commander and then General within the Republic military he no doubt gained a great sense of responsibility and matured quite a lot. This is not uncommon from soldiers; war makes men of us and truly changes a person. After many months of relentless war (by the time we see him in Cat and Mouse) Anakin has no doubt matured into a General. This is in no way unrealistic and shows how Anakin has progressed from his free-willed self in the Speeder chase, progressed further through the traumatic experience of AOTC and has now matured into what Obi-Wan describes in ANH.

By the time of ROTS something has no doubt happened to Ahsoka, affecting him (given his flaw of attachment). This gives him his sombre, angry, yet somewhat ?joyous?, attitude during the Battle of Coruscant (notice he is the same as he is in The Clone Wars only more serious). Then you have the ?murder? of Count Dooku and the discovering Padme is pregnant. This makes him worried. He notices the war is winding down which also makes him stressed and unsure (he is not unlike George Patton ? he is a warrior and isn?t happy about peace time). Then Palpatine causes Anakin to be disillusioned with the Jedi (enforced by them not granting him the rank of master), creating turmoil within Anakin made even worse by the events since he beheaded Dooku. The final compression of these events is the realisation (as made in the Mortis trilogy) that he is the Chosen One and the knowledge that he will no doubt have to do something significant sometime soon (he is ?looking out? for his destiny if you will). Once again it is simply a stressful situation which makes him ?whiny? and it not unrealistic for the character given the situation.

So the misconception that Anakin is a whiny and bratty character is largely unfounded. In AOTC Anakin?s real problem is arrogance. The whiny behaviour is how he deals with stress. In TCW he loses this arrogance and matures into a war-time leader. By ROTS he is mature yet sombre, only reverting to being ?whiny? once he is placed in yet another stressful situation. It all has to do where we are seeing Anakin in the films...

 

That makes no sense. In a blockbuster movie you want your audience to grasp the protagonists charakter. Otherwise it will be very hard to connect and understand the protagonist - which is very, very bad.

 

You do. You see Anakin?s true personality during the Speeder Chase in AOTC, in the elevator in AOTC, on the Peasant ship with Padme (albeit poorly written it wasn?t whiney), the Dinner scene with Padme (once again poorly written but not whiney), during the entire first half of ROTS and when Anakin says goodbye to Obi-Wan for the last time as his friend. Furthermore TCW is now used to further elaborate.

You are given glimpse of his true personality within the films. You are then meant to understand Anakin?s immaturity during AOTC which leads to his behaviour and the incredibly stressful situations in ROTS which lead to his behaviour.

 

Hmpf, I think whinyness is a part of his "true personality". You're just labeling the scenes you like as being those of his "true personality" and the others are ... what exactly? His fake personality? Do you believe Anakin to be two-faced like a stepford smiler? Because reactions to stress are usually also part of ones personality.
But I digress. You can do whatever you want but don't expect people to follow your interpretation if you just leave out scenes as you see fit.

 

You are ignoring my fundamental points. I am not just labelling the scenes I like as his true personality just ?because I like them? (never said that either) but rather for the fact they are Anakin in different situations. Every situation in which he is ?whiney? he is likewise stressed and under pressure. Every situation in which he isn?t or is in his ?environment? he is the free-willed spirit. There are patterns you are meant to view under the stereographic levels.

Are you telling me that when you are stressed your personality doesn?t change? It may change in a different way to Anakin?s however it would never-the-less change. Some people laugh, some people go quite, some people get bad tempered and some people whine. It?s a natural part of humans. The fact of the matter is, yes when he is whiney it is part of his personality, however it is likewise wrong to label that as his every-day persona. If you were in a stressful situation and were whiney what would you say if someone labelled you as whiney? Even if you generally weren?t? You can?t label someone as something for select instances.

BTW you are accusing me of what you are doing. What would you call the scenes in which he isn?t whiney? His fake personality? You are taking Anakin?s bad scenes and labelling them with his entire character.

 

Yet you labeled the non-stressed scenes his "true personality" as if the others somehow weren't.

Of course it changes. And that change is part of my personality. How I react under stress is part of me being me.

Select instances? He's a Jedi-Knight and the chosen one to boot. His entire life is one big stressful situation. In the movies he quite frequently whines.

Being whiny doesn't mean you're whiny 100% of the time. I don't think I said he was whiny 100% of the time. And he has reason to whine. Still, he does go over the top with his complaining quite often.

 

I guess we are agreed somewhat then. However at the same time I think it is wrong for people to label him as a ?whiney? character. He reacts, in some instances, like many teenagers would if they had the extreme stress he did at certain times. I think his ?un-stressed? personality outweighs his stressed personality however... I think TCW favours this.

 

I don't know if it was intentional or not. After all, he had no idea people would react to Jar Jar the way they did.

If it was intentional, wow that was a stupid move.

 

I think part of the issue as well is that AOTC is basically the movie where Anakin gets taken down a peg. Until this point, he's never been on a mission on his own, but from we can gather based on his and Obi-Wan's elevator conversation, it's not uncommon for Anakin to have to rush in to "save the day" as it were. There's also the fact that he is shown to be quite skilled -- sensing Padme's attacker before Obi-Wan, being able to keep tabs on Zam when she escapes-- which, in addition to Palpatine's praise, likely gives him quite a high opinion of himself.

Anakin is not used to failure, I think this is what the film implies, and he's also desperate for recognition. He wants Obi-Wan to be proud of him and part of the issue, I believe, is demonstrated in the packing scene. Likely, he can't understand why Obi-Wan is so critical of him when he is able to do so many things and has such strong ability in the Force. It's similar to his outburst in ROTS after being denied rank because he knows very well that he can do anything any one of the Masters in that room can do. The issue is, he lacks self-mastery and hasn't learned to control his emotions or attachments. Anakin's very much focused on action, though, on things which are concretely accomplished, not deeper philosophical points, so it comes across as a snub to him.

To be honest, I think DarthPhilosopher made an important point in that we have to consider the context of the story. It's about Anakin's fall to the Dark Side, so we are necessarily seeing the character at his worst. From the very moment we see him, he's already stressed about his mother and nervous over meeting Padme and the fact that her life is also being targeted. Let's also consider that this is a movie where Anakin's failures begin to compile: he fails to save his mother, he fails to control his anger, he fails to save Padme in the droid factory, he fails to rescue Obi-Wan from the Geonosians, he fails to defeat Count Dooku (and subsequently loses his arm). The kid takes a lot hits throughout the film and for someone who's used to being the best, who's been told he'll be the greatest and most powerful, who is a prophesied "Chosen One," it must be quite difficult to take.

 

I guess therein lies the problem. I'm not very familiar with the expanded universe, and I didn't watch either Clone Wars TV series. If you're only exposed to the films, you're not aware of Anakin's fame or just how heroic he really is. Now it seem as though the films aren't long enough to fill in all the information that is need to show just who Anakin is.

Maybe if TPM had began with 19 year old Anakin already being Obi Wan's apprentice...

This makes a lot of sense. Anakin is becoming desperate and losing control whereas he used to laugh in the face of danger. It's making him bitter. I guess I didn't grasp this since I don't have much knowledge about the Clone Wars and other information outside the context of the PT films themselves.

Thanks for the information DarthPhilosopher and PiettsHat.

 

There's also a compelling line from Padme on this matter. In Chapter 19: A Hero Lost (ROTS), she tells Anakin that he expects too much of himself. His sense of failure/weakness is making him bitter and insecure. But the Dark Side -- and Palpatine himself -- offers the illusion of safety and control.

 

People, like I've said Anakin's behavior has to do with past as a slave. Abused children typically have personality and behavioral problems later in their life. Something very interesting that I found is THIS:

*The child begins to form extremely complaining and demanding behavior.



And look at this!

Signs of emotional abuse:

*Feelings of depression
*Withdrawal from social interaction
*Isolation from friends and family
*Low self-esteem
*Fearfulness
*Guilty feeling
*Feelings of shame
*Mood changes
*Nervous feeling
*Not trusting others
*Frequent blaming on others
*Self-blaming
*Pessimistic behavior
*Substance or drug abuse
*Extreme dependence on others
*Avoiding eye-contact
*Telling lies
*Aggressive behavior
*Emotional unstability
*Suicidal attempts

Anakin has at least SOME of those symptoms. He is extremely dependent on others, frequently blames others, blames himself, is fairly moody, is emotionally unstable, and is guilty of aggressive behavior.

 

I view the Anakin of AOTC and ROTS the same as I do the Luke of ANH and ESB.

Are any of these less "whiny" than anything Anakin says?

"But I was going into the Toschi Station to pick up some power convertors!"
"What am I doing here? We're wasting our time!"
"Its not that I like the Empire, I hate it, but there's nothing I can do about it right now."
"Oh Biggs is right, I'm never gonna get out of here!"
"But its whole 'nother year!"
"Oh it just isn't fair..."

I'm sure there are more examples. They are essentially the same characters for large parts. And I think Lucas did consciously try and make it that way for a number of reasons. How some viewers can adore one and despise the other based purely on either's personality is something that's never seemed all that logical to me.

 

It's because they had a vision of Anakin. They thought of him as a "good man" and Anakin doesn't fit their idea of a "good man" because...

*He avenged his mother's death
*His love declaration was too cheesy
*He complained about Obi Wan's training
*He fell for Palpatine's BS
*His reason for turning to the Dark Side was selfish
*He can't control himself too well
*He's arrogant
*He broke the Jedi code multiple times
*He complained about not being made a Master

Anakin, however, does not go against my idea of a good man. He is good natured, and a very good person. Half of his problems and faults are due to nurture rather than nature, even if people refuse to acknowledge that.