CT Did Luke tap into the Dark Side?

So in his fight with Vader in front of the Emperor, Luke responded to the goading of Vader about Leia and attacked with ferocity leading to Vaders defeat.

Did Luke tap into the dark side during this gaining control afterwards? Or did he find a way to channel the light side using his love for his sister as a "conduit"?

 

I think he did both showing that denial of either isn't correct, in entirety. It's about discovering self-control and individual internal balance between motives.

 

IMO he lost himself for a moment and genuinely tapped into the dark side.
He is able to pull himself back from it, and reject the dark side once and for all.
Unlike Anakin, Luke makes a revelation about where it would lead him, and I think having come this close to turning first-hand gave him experience the Jedi of the past never had, so he arguably surpasses them.

 

No, but he did tap into the morally ambiguous side.

 

"Most of this sequence with Luke really had to do with making him angry and to try to tempt him to become angry and Luke fighting that temptation. Which obviously eventually he does and eventually again he doesn’t. But that’s the real tension in this whole scene is “Will he become angry enough to try to attack the Emperor?” I mean what the Emperor wants basically is from him to kill his father so he can take his place, which is the same thing his father is trying to get him to do is kill the Emperor so Vader can take the Emperor’s place."

--George Lucas, ROTJ DVD Commentary, 2004

"So the final confrontation here is primarily about trying to make Luke become angry, so that when he fights his father he’s fighting in anger, therefore begins to use the dark side of the Force, and therefore sort of succumbs to the dark side of the Force. In The Empire Strikes Back we had them confront each other and fight together. But in this film Luke has become more mature so that now he knows he shouldn’t be fighting him—that is the path to the dark side. So it’s basically a confrontation between two people and one of them doesn’t want to fight, and the other one keeps trying to push him into it. And then in the end when he gives up and they really do fight, what’s happening there is that ultimately Luke is turning to the dark side, and all is going to be lost."

--George Lucas, ROTJ DVD Commentary, 2004

"The key issue in these movies is for a Jedi not to use anger when he’s fighting."

--George Lucas, ROTJ DVD Commentary, 2004.

Ergo, a Jedi should not use anger and hate to fight.

 

Fair enough.

Still I think there is a big differnce in fighting with anger and fighting with rage. Rage is uncontrollabe, anger isn't.

 

I don't think anger or hate are wrong in all cases it's how you *act* that matters.

 

luke did seem to use anger in rotj. with that being said mace windu used anger times 10

 

Mace Windu fought with a controlled rage. He was able to control the darkness within himself and use it a a weapon for the light, the premise behind Vapaad. Luke simply lost his mind after Vader threatened Leia and fought in an uncontrolled rage for that short period of time.

 

I love how some will justify anything for 'some'. Mace was much more a danger than Luke.

 

Hrm...I'd say that's a pretty prime example of Rage Face right thar.

 

I doubt many dispute that. I just find it baffling how many excuse some not others of same behaviours.

 

Nah, similar to TPM Obi-Wan vs. Darth Maul, using force rage =/= tap into the dark side, you can use a force rage to defeat your enemy. (Though Obi-Wan failed to defeat Maul unlike Luke with Vader)

 

But anger is not good for a Jedi.

YODA: "I cannot teach him. The boy has no patience."

OBI-WAN: "He will learn patience."

YODA: "Hmmm. Much anger in him, like his father."


YODA: "Run! Yes. A Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger...fear...aggression. The dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice."


VADER: "Obi-Wan has taught you well. You have controlled your fear...now release your anger. Only your hatred can destroy me."


YODA: "Remember, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware. Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny."


PALPATINE: "You want this, don't you? The hate is swelling in you now. Take your Jedi weapon. Use it. I am unarmed. Strike me down with it. Give in to your anger. With each passing moment, you make yourself more my servant."


PALPATINE: "Good. I can feel your anger. I am defenseless. Take your weapon! Strike me down with all your hatred, and your journey towards the dark side will be complete."


PALPATINE: "Good. Use your aggressive feelings, boy! Let the hate flow through you."


PALPATINE: "Good! Your hate has made you powerful. Now, fulfill your destiny and take your father's place at my side!"



PALPATINE: "Are you going to kill me?"

ANAKIN: "I would certainly like to."

PALPATINE: "I know you would. I can feel your anger. It gives you focus, makes you stronger."

Obi-wan did use his aggressive feelings against Maul and he was wrong. He realizes this which is why he lets go of his fear, anger and hate and defeats Maul as a Jedi would. In doing so, he is allowed to become a Jedi Knight because he resisted the dark side and realized it was wrong.

 

darth-sinister

True I agree, but he also used here again after Maul used dun moch on him ;

 

I always figured he did. Wearing Black (not that that's necessarily a sign of the dark side but, as a general rule Jedi wore light colored, simple clothing) and especially force choking the gamorrean guards at Jabba's palace. I'm sure they would have responded to mind tricks which would have been more in line with the Jedi way of handling the situation. Force choke and giving Jabba the ultimatum to free his friends or "be destroyed" definitely seems more aggressive and more in line with the dark side of the force. He definitely played it close to the foul line.

 

We are meant to find Luke in ROTJ at a point in which we don't know if he will turn to the dark side or reject its temptation and vanquish the Sith. The black outfit was selected specifically for that purpose, as we are intended to believe his allegiance in the Force (at least initially) to be somewhat ambiguous. Luke shows us later in the movie that he has good intentions, though his outburst with Vader in which he did give into hate for a few moments showed he was in fact vulnerable to going dark. So yes, Luke did give into the dark side, but he realized in doing so that he was becoming his father.

 

So if Luke was alligning himself with Darkside why did ObiWan and Yoda have anything to do with him? He is wearing black on Degobah but there is no "hmmm stronger in the darkside becoming you are but need you to kill the emperor I do".

 

There is no doubt that Luke started down the path of the Dark Side when Vader was able to use Leia against him (Luke).

After he has beaten Vader, he realizes his failure, when he looks at his mechanical hand, and realizes he is becoming his Father, he finally realizes the error of what he just did.


That's why the 2 scenes from Empire and Jedi mean the same thing:

 

The prequels were much more a danger to everyone.

 

Visual cues like that are meant for the audience.

Great sig, by the way.

 

I've always read that scene just like this.

 

Right and he realizes that he's making the same mistake as before which is why he suggested running. A Jedi is constantly tested to not use their aggressive feelings when fighting. Hence why a Jedi tries to use fighting as a last resort. But in times of war it is more difficult than during times of peace. Even Yoda realizes this when he faces the darkness within himself.

Luke wasn't aligning anything. They see that he can go either way, but he has not yet turned. He can still become a Jedi. That is why he must face Vader again which is his Jedi trial. Luke refused to turn on Cloud City and he still acted selflessly to rescue Han.

 

I do not buy that colour indicates allegiance and I think it is entirely too simplistic and forced that these films attempt to imply it does while disproving it once in PT and once in OT. However, the fact this contradiction occurs does show everything is grey.