CT Did Obi-Wan and Yoda not completely accept Anakin back to the light side?

Whenever I watched RotJ in the past, I always thought, watching the last scene, that Obi-Wan and Yoda had accepted Anakin back completely and that they were all buddies again. However, in recent viewings, I watched more closely and noticed that Obi-Wan gave Anakin a slightly dark/reproachful look, and that both Obi-Wan and Yoda are keeping their distance from Anakin just a teency bit in that final scene. Is it possible that Obi-Wan and Yoda didn't fully accept Anakin back to the light side?

 

Possible, sure. It's a matter of perception. I never read the end of my fave film as dark. For me, whether or not his old teachers accepted his redemption doesm't really matter, the Force did. I have always read Ben to be a bit quizzical but not condemning.

 

I think the last scene is rather silly, tbh.

 

I don't think they did. They had the wisdom to see that he had been redeemed in the Force. It was also them that helped him return in spirit form, I think. So they would have no reason to be suspicious or resentful.

 

Going by the Yoda arc, it might have been Quin-Gonn who helped Anakin now.

 

In the EU, Obi-Wan does (I think this was after a Lucas interview stated "returning from the netherworld of the force" is a technique, that you have to learn from somebody, and that just being "light side" is not enough).

The Life & Legend of Obi-Wan Kenobi ​

Had Obi-Wan's spirit not witnessed Vader's action, he never would have believed it. Vader, the same monster that Obi-Wan had left to die on Mustafar, had sacrificed himself to save his son. And suddenly Obi-Wan realized where he had failed. For unlike Luke, Obi-Wan had not only believed that Anakin was consumed by the dark side, but had actually refused to believe that any goodness remained within Vader. And by refusing to allow that possibility, Obi-Wan had condemned not only his former friend but his own capacity for hope.
Fortunately, Luke's unwavering faith in his father's innate goodness had proved to be a stronger force than the power of the dark side.
Obi-Wan recalled what Qui-Gon Jinn's spirit had told him so long ago, when he said that Obi-Wan was not ready, and that he failed to understand. For so many years, Obi-Wan had thought Qui-Gon meant that he wasn't ready to comprehend details about Anakin's conversion to the dark side. But now, he finally understood his Master's words.
I wasn't ready to forgive Anakin. And he won't be entirely free unless I do.
Unfortunately, just as Obi-Wan realised that Anakin Skywalker lived, he also knew that Anakin would not live much longer. As Luke hauled his dying father toward a shuttle, Obi-Wan's spirit shifted his own psyche to another realm. And he waited.

After Anakin died in his son's arms, Obi-Wan called out into the void, "Anakin."
A moment later, Obi-Wan heard a familiar voice return from the darkness. "Obi-Wan? Master, I'm so sorry. So very, very—"
"Anakin, listen carefully," Obi-Wan interrupted. "You are in the netherworld of the Force, but if you ever wish to revisit corporeal space, then I still have one thing left to teach you. A way to become one with the Force. If you choose this path to immortality, you must listen now, before your consciousness fades."
Obi-Wan sensed confusion and remorse in Anakin's psyche, then Anakin answered, "But Master ... why me?"
"Because you ended the horror, Anakin," Obi-Wan said. "Because you fulfilled the prophesy. Because you were ... and are ... The Chosen One."
But Obi-Wan knew in his heart that those were not the only reasons. He added, "Because I was wrong about you. And because I am your friend."​

 

I don't think there was any suspicion of Anakin at the final celebration. But it is an interesting viewpoint, kinda like "Why is this guy here after a lifetime of committing heinous crimes he does one good deed and get's to become one with the Force?"

 

I think Yoda knew Anakin could be redeemed; not sure Obi-Wan did because he suggested the "Emperor has already won" when Luke said he couldn't kill his own father.

 

"The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader."

"If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny - consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice."

Can't see Yoda's perspective being any different from Obi Wan's.

 

Kind of hard to believe that one of the greatest jedi hunters the galaxy has ever known turns good again in the last 20 minutes of his life, kills his master, and suddenly gets re-accepted as a jedi in the afterlife.

 

It's a movie. It's not supposed to work out the way it does in real life, where you typically have to pay for your crimes. Any subsequent deeds may be noticed and appreciated, but they are dismissed in light of everything else that you did. The idea is that Anakin, a good guy before he turned, spends many years doing evil things, seemingly never to be good again. And in a singular moment, love makes him renounce what he has done and he saves his son. Does that excuse all the atrocities he committed? No. But it makes for powerful cinematic value and dramatic emotional effect.

 

Weren't Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Yoda watching as Vader was dying right there in front of Luke?

At that last moment, they taught him how to become a force ghost.

 

Boy, that is certainly an in-depth observation. The only thing I will say is that scene much better with Shaw than Hayden.

 

It never occurred to me before, but under the circumstances it's certainly conceivable that there would be a bit of ... standoffishnesss, for a bit.

 

I always took those looks to mean that they were thinking, "Well whaddya know? Luke was right and we were wrong after all. Good to have you back." A slight sheepishness and a touch of regret at what had occurred, but still friendly.

I think the physical distance has more to do with how the 'reveal' of Anakin's ghost was composed, a large empty space was required so as to focus upon the action of him appearing, and this necessitated a slight distance from the other two, who appeared together.

 

Prior to the SE, weren't they all visible at the same time? Anakin "fading into visibility" was as I recall a SE addition. He was still a short space away when he was Sebastian Shaw, though.

 

No, in the OOT he fades in:



However, like many, I had the OOT in dirty old 4:3 pan & scan, in which the fade-in isn't visible, the frame is initially on Yoda & Obi-Wan, then moves left to reveal Anakin, by which time he's already fully visible.

 

That might explain it - mine was probably the same.

 

I was always of the impression that since Anakin was the Chosen One and born of the force, he did not need any training or help from Qui-Gon/Yoda/Obi-Wan. Him being a Force Ghost is the default. Regardless, his spirit was not corrupted, and wore Jedi robes, showing that he indeed is good again.

 

From the RoTS novel:

"An infinite mystery is the Force." Yoda lifted his head and turned his gaze out into the wheel of stars. "Much to learn, there still is."
And you will have time to learn it.
"Infinite knowledge..." Yoda shook his head. "Infinite time, does that require."
With my help, you can learn to join with the Force, yet retain consciousness. You can join your light to it forever, Perhaps in time, even your physical self.
Yoda did not move. "Eternal life..."
The ultimate goal of the Sith, yet they can never achieve it; it comes only by the release of self, not the exaltation of self. It comes through compassion, not greed. Love is the answer to the darkness.
"Become one with the Force, yet influence still to have..." Yoda mused. "A power greater than all, it is."
It cannot be granted; it can only be taught. It is yours to learn, if you wish it.
Slowly, Yoda nodded. "A very great Jedi Master you have become, Qui-Gon Jinn. A very great Jedi Master you always were, but too blind I was to see it."
He rose, and folded his hands before him, and inclined his head in the Jedi bow of respect.
The bow of the student, in the presence of the Master.
"Your apprentice, I gratefully become."​

 

This says nothing about Anakin though, just Yoda. Being born of the force, I still think Anakin would have been a force ghost without any help.

 

I think this bit:

"it comes only by the release of self, not the exaltation of self. It comes through compassion, not greed. Love is the answer to the darkness."

applies to everyone who achieves it - Anakin, Yoda, and Obi-Wan.

 

Vader always has the light side in it, that is why Luke sensed it and then before prophets of the dark side.



''There is too much the light in him...''





He could become more powerful yet that little light side stopped him from becoming stronger.

As for Obi-Wan and Yoda, they failed to see the little light side in Vader, because of the same mistakes of the jedi council. They are not like Qui-Gon, they are more narrow minded and very disciplined jedi masters and do not tolerate such things like Qui-Gon usually do. (Though they were not the worst about it, Mace was.)
That is why Obi-Wan failed to train Anakin, and Yoda failed at Dooku. And without Qui-Gon, they couldn't even learn Force Ghost ability.

 

In the rough draft…Ben explains that…if "Vader becomes one with the dark side of the Force, he will lose all identity. If he turns to the good side, he will pass through the Netherworld" and in the revised rough draft, Yoda "will rescue him before he becomes one with the Force."

--Lorenzo Bouzereau, explanation from Star Wars The Annotated Screenplays page 300.

"This little scene where he burns his father's body, it wasn't originally in the script. But I decided it gave more closure in terms of Luke's relationship to his father, letting go of his father. Even though later on, as we get to the end of the movie, as he joins the Force, he was able to retain his original identity, it's because of Obi-Wan and Yoda, who learnt how to do that: how to join the Force at will and then retain your identity. But it was his 'identity as he was when he died as Anakin Skywalker.'"

--George Lucas, ROTJ DVD Commentary.

Aboard the second Death Star at the Battle of Endor, Anakin Skywalker lay dying. He asked his son to remove his life-sustaining helmet, so that he could look upon his long lost son with his own eyes. Having saved his son's life, and reclaimed his soul from the dark side, Anakin died and became one with the Force. As he shed his corporeal form, he found the spectral forms of Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda ready for his return. Through compassion and selflessness, Anakin discovered the secret knowledge of the Shaman of the Whills, a technique that allowed him to retain his identity in the netherworld of the Force.

Anakin's spectral form looked upon his two children -- the twins Luke Skywalker and Leia Organa -- during the celebration at Endor.

--The Official Site Databank on Anakin Skywalker.

So harboring any negative feelings doesn't fit the Jedi Code of compassion for other living beings, much less their involvement in helping him to retain his identity.