Did Obi-Wan know that Anakin survived after ROTS?

He leaves Darth Vader for dead after crippling him and watching him get burned to a crisp and George Lucas said that Obi-Wan belives that Anakin/Darth Vader is going to die on Mustafar because of his injuries, he doesnt even know that Palpatine was on his way to help Vader out either although in the novelization of ROTS he senses a dark presence on its way there, later when Obi-Wan is helping Padme during her childbirth she tells him "Obi-Wan there is still good in him, i know there...still...is" and then she dies, i think Obi-Wan didnt tell about how he left Vader behind to die so she thinks he isnt hurt and Obi-Wan just fought him and got her away from Anakin.

But at the table on the Tantive IV Obi-Wan and Yoda are talking and he tells Yoda "We must take the children somewhere where the Sith will not sense their presence" implying that he hasnt felt Vader's death in the force and realizes that he somehow survived after he left him to die, did Obi-Wan and Yoda know he survived after that? Because if you count DL Obi-Wan is shocked at the end when he hears about Lord Vader still being alive when he thought he was dead after ROTS, do they know he survived in canon or do they think that Vader is dead at the end?

 

Yes, he knew.

IIRC, it was Dark Lord that spilled those beans.

 

BEN: Hmm. To protect you both from the
Emperor, you were hidden from your father
when you were born. The Emperor knew, as I did, if
Anakin were to have any offspring, they would
be a threat to him. That is the reason why
your sister remains safely anonymous.

This is canon since it's still in the film.

 

Ben's speaking in half truths again. He's not going to tell Luke that he intentionally left him helpless, for dead and buring alive on Mustafar.

 

. . . or it might have gone like THIS:

BEN After you father massacred innocent younglings, committed war crimes by summarily executing the Trade Federation leadership, he then choked the living **** out of your pregnant mother after seeing me on the ramp of your mother's ship. You see, your father felt your mother betrayed him, while she had no idea that I was on her ship. I had secretly hidden on her ship in order to find and then kill your father, and so I was responsible for your father's anger at Padme. We fought -- he was kicking my butt until in a moment of good fortune I mutilated him, hacking of his good arm and both legs, and then left him burning alive on the lava sands of Mustafar. This is the moment when I picked up the light saber I gave to you on Tatooine. I managed to beat feet off of Mustafar with your comatose mother just before the Emperor arrived. The Emperor found the butchered and charred stump that was once Anakin Skywalker and saved his life with prosthetic appendages and a helmeted life support suit. And THAT is why Vader is more machine than man now!

 

Well at the time, if Obi Wan did believe Anakin/Vader to be truly dead, he knew Palpataine/Sidious would be looking for a new apprentice. Who better then the offspring of the chosen one?He could train them from birth and they'd be emerged and lost in the darkside forever.

As far as I remember, Obi Wan believes that Anakin/Vader dies on Mustafar. Its not until he's in the cantina in mos eisley and sees the holonet that he realizes Vader survived and become the dark lord of the sith.

 

Now this is good. I think we should give it to Tarantino to re-write and maybe cast Harvey Keitel as Obi-Wan in the remake.

"You see, Anakin was fitty feet from me. I says to him, don't jump, kid. But he jumps anyways. *********** burned like a son-of-a-b###h."

 

I don't think it was a case of Obi-wan speaking in half-truths, but rather a case of Lucas stuck in half-writing. He was stuck in a corner by his own story. It's not a fault, but rather the story leading him to a position where he has to have the characters make almost absurd assumptions. Obi-wan left Anakin to die in a position of uncertainty, where he assumes Anakin will die, instead of doing the deed himself and running him through in an act of mercy. We saw Obi-wan do that in the arena...lopping off all the limbs then killing off a creature...why leave Anakin behind at a river of flowing lava? Only because the story demands it, where Obi-wan leaves with Anakin's saber. As it is, the way it stands, he loots Anakin and leaves him to die a painful death.

 

how could he not know? He knows Anakin became a Sith called Darth Vader. After ROTS, Palpatine trots out Darth Vader to terrorize the galaxy...hmmm...I wonder if the Sith Lord Darth Vader who was formerly Anakin Skywalker, and this new Sith Lord named Darth Vader could possibly be one and the same??? If he didn't know immediately after he left Mustafar, he knew soon enough... He clearly knows the name Darth Vader, otherwise he couldn't have told Luke the half-truth that a young pupil of his named Darth Vader killed Anakin...Obviously, in order to tell that particular half-truth, he would have to know that Vader and Anakin were really one and the same to begin with, in order to tell Luke that, "from a certain point of view".

 

Yes, it's clear that Obi-Wan knew by the time of ANH.
The question is, did he know in ROTS? If he found out between ROTS and ANH, at what point did this happen? One possibility is offered by Dark Lord.

 

I would think he knew the first time Darth Vader, in the black suit, was seen in public or on the holonet or something.

 

That's the approach taken by the book.

 

LOL...
Funny how the WHOLE truth doesn't even come close to the line of BS that old Ben fed to Luke.
No wonder Ben was called a crazy old hermit... one day, his Apprentice was killed by Darth Vader, the next day... his apprentice WAS Darth Vader. Can't say I blame the dude for not knowing about Leia either. Poor Ben prolly remembered that Mrs. Skywalker only gave birth to one kid.

 

Obi-wan doesn't kill Anakin directly, because he cannot kill his friend. No matter what Anakin has done, Obi-wan cannot bring himself to kill his friend. That's why he tells Yoda that he cannot do it. And that is why he leaves him to burn. Because I guarantee you, if I set you on fire like that and didn't bother to put you out, you're gonna die. And if you're still alive after the flames go out, you're not going to live much longer. Obi-wan left him to burn because it allowed Yoda to get what he wanted, without Obi-wan having his blood on his hands. Nor was Obi-wan interested in granting mercy to him. Let me ask you this, could you kill someone you cared about if they did something horrible? It's not as easy as you'd like to think.

Uh, what makes you think that Obi-wan watched the holonet on Tatooine? Yes, he knows that Anakin's name is Vader based on the holo images from the security cameras in the Temple. But there is nothing in the films to indicate that Obi-wan sat in Mos Eisely or Anchorhead and watched the holonet news and heard about Vader being alive. The eu has that, but not everyone reads the eu. He's a hermit living in a self-imposed exile. Hermits generally tend to avoid hanging around in public places.

 

We know from ANH that he'd been to Mos Eisley before. Given Leia's comments about Vader earlier in the film, it seems probable Obi-Wan would have heard something about Vader from those with some experience in the wider galaxy, HoloNet or no HoloNet.

 

Yoda said: "Destroy the Sith we must."

Yoda DID NOT say: "Assume that, on their own, the char-broiled hacked-up Sith will die."



And to answer your question: If I was the one tasked with bringing them to justice, and that justice was death... then yes. The mission ALWAYS comes before the men.

 

Well, I was using the holonet as just an example, he could have also read it in the Tatooine Times, Twin Suns Daily Tribune, or overheard someone mention it at the bar he frequents for being such a lush

the point is, at some point prior to his conversation with Luke in his hut, Obi-Wan Kenobi MUST have found out that Anakin survived as Darth Vader. If he hadn't, he would have had no reason to tell Luke the bit about a young pupil of his named Darth Vader, etc. The half-truth was to prevent Luke from finding out that Darth Vader was his father, but the only way Obi-Wan could have used that as a half-truth would be if he knew the full truth already. Its not as if Darth Vader was a secret weapon, Princess Leia certainly knew who he was full well. If a young Senator from Alderaan knows about Darth Vader, its safe to say that others would have as well...Basically, the existence of Darth Vader by the time ANH rolls around is hardly secret. Who Darth Vader is, however, is known to only a handful of people in the entire galaxy, and Kenobi is one of them.

 

In the novel, "Rise of Darth Vader" there are mentions of Obi-wan visiting the catina & watching the hologram & seeing Vader walk around. He then realizes Anakin did survive.

Don't forget, trying to tie in 'Sith' with things that happen in 'A New Hope' is a bit difficult. There's what? A 20 year span between the two? So I'm sure during that time Obi-Wan learns more about Darth Vader.

We'll just have to wait for the books to come out. And come out they will.

 

Yes, but that's the books. Lucas isn't concerned with that and not everyone has read the books, nor will they. So they don't know what we know from "Dark Lord" and "Last Of The Jedi".

Obi-wan knows about Mos Eisely because 20 years ago, he arrived via transport to bring Luke to his family. Besides, being a hermit means that he lives alone and away from people.

So if your best friend or your brother were the criminals, you tell me you wouldn't hesitate a little? You'd just kill them and not bat an eye. You wouldn't try to talk them into surrendering.

Or he doesn't tell Luke about his father, because he doesn't want to scare Luke off from being a Jedi. Leia knows about Vader because they've met before. She's a Senator and has had meetings with Palpatine and you don't think that Vader, who lives on Coruscant when he's not out killing the last of the Jedi, wouldn't have interacted with his daughter and not know it.

 

Yet Vader appears to have never realized it given that he only realizes Luke has a sister in Jedi when he reads Luke's mind.

 

Ok, I think I need to clarify why I mentioned the bit about Leia knowing...it wasn't to definitively prove that Kenobi knew, it was merely to illustrate that Darth Vader was not kept in secrecy, and if his existence was known by the Galactic Senate, its entirely likely that Darth Vader's existence is then "common knowledge". I wasn't trying to imply that because she knew, everyone in the entire galaxy would know...However, As the Jedi Master entrusted to watch over Luke, and with personal knowledge regarding Palpatine and his rise to power, it would have been prudent for Obi-Wan Kenobi, despite his role as hermit, to try to stay informed on whats going on galactically. Given his personal interest regarding Luke, Palpatine, etc, it seems to me that he would have discreetly found a way to stay informed. Either way, its quite clear that Obi-Wan Kenobi knew Darth Vader was Anakin Skywalker well before the scene in ANH when he talks with Luke.

 

I'm not saying everyone has to believe in the scene from Dark Lord in the cantina.
However, IMO it is implied by ANH that Ben has met Chewbacca before, and I bet that didn't happen in the Jundland Wastes.

 

How is it clear? All we know is what Obi-wan tells Luke. Remember, Luke doesn't know everything. Not about his father, nor the Jedi, nor the Force and especially the dark side. All Ben tells him is that his father was killed by Darth Vader. He never said that Vader was still alive or dead. Just that he betrayed and murdered his father, as well as helped the Empire to kill the Jedi. Obi-wan makes it so vauge, that you don't know for sure if he knows. Thus he could very well not know, since he left Vader to burn to death and not know that Palpatine came looking for him.

As to keeping up on galactic events, that's assuming that he wanted to. Just because he might, doesn't mean that he has to. He had other matters such as preparing for the day he has to train Luke and training himself under Qui-gon's watchful eye once more. There are possibilities here. Nothing is for certain outside of the eu and even then, not everyone is going to acknowledge it. And Lucas could do as he's doen before and do a new commentary, saying that Obi-wan did or didn't know until ANH.

How is it implied? Look at the scene again. Ben is asking Bo Shek if he has a ship and if he is willing to handle a trip to Alderaan. Bo says no, but introduces him to a guy who can get him there. Ben and Chewie then talk shop, while Luke is getting into trouble.

 

Luke was getting into trouble?I thought someone picked a fight with him, when all he wanted was a drink..He even ignored the guy in order to not get into a fight.

 

He can't bring himself to kill Anakin because he's Obi-wan's friend, but not enough of a friend for mercy? Sorry, not buying it. Your answer pretty much has it "both ways."

Besides, if you leave someone you care for to die in agonizing pain...burning alive...to simply walk away and leave them there to die, you never cared for them in the first place. It looks Obi-wan didn't have the stones to do the right thing...the Jedi thing...to end someone's pain. "He'll eventually die...let his last few moments be in agonizing pain, it's not my problem anymore." That's horrible.