Full Series Did Obi-Wan lie to Ezra?

Do you believe holocrons could be manipulated by Maul?

Because Bendu already said that there are secrets that can learned from the combined holocrons of Sith and Jedi.

And then Maul learns that Kenobi is protecting the chosen one, a.k.a the key to destroying the Sith. But telling that to Ezra would be meaningless, I guess Kenobi simply lied as he did to Luke in Episode IV about his father.

 

He told the truth "from a cetain point of view. . . "

 

Obi Wan's Con skill must at least be 10D.

 

He is somewhat famous for his 'Half Truths and Hyperbole.'

 

Well...Obi-Wan wasn't the key to destroying the Sith. Either Anakin or Luke was (depending on your point of view). As I interpret it, the Holocrons sent Ezra to a planet with Twin Suns, not specifically Obi-Wan or Luke (I assume because Tatooine was the common denominator of Ezra's and Maul's desires) Ezra asked why the Holocrons would send him specifically to Obi-Wan and Obi-Wan points out that the only thing that sent Ezra specifically to Obi Wan was Maul, which is true.

 

Obi-Wan lied through his teeth. He easily deflected Ezra's clumsy questions with a pack of half-truths and lies of omission.

The Holocrons did not lie. The key to destroying the Sith is right there on Tatooine. Obi-Wan's the only person on the planet that knows what it is. But he would never have shared that secret with Ezra. He said what he needed to in order to get Ezra to leave Tatooine and not tell anyone else what he'd found. Quite well done, actually. Obi-Wan is certainly good at deceiving earnest young men who just want to do good and fight evil.

 

The problem being that just wanting "to do good and fight evil" but going about it in a nosy, shortsighted, and generally wrongheaded way that almost ruins things that did not actually require his presence is not automatically the cosmically right thing to do just because Ezra really, really wants to do it. Filoni indicated in an interview that Ezra finally leaving and keeping his mouth shut afterwards is to be taken as a sign of maturity.

 

But Maul didn't know Obi-Wan was alive. He only learned that via holocrons. So if he didn't even know Obi-Wan was alive how could he search him in the first place. Remember Maul's reaction ; ''He lives'' ...

Also do you think Bendu didn't know about the holocrons? He said secrets can be revealed by using it. Ezra was searching the key to destroying the Sith. Obi-Wan also believes Luke is the chosen one. And without Luke, Vader wouldn't turn to the light side and he wouldn't kill the Emperor. So the key destroying the Sith was Luke.

 

I doubt Kenobi was especially knowledgeable on what exactly was going on between Maul and Ezra and the Holocrons. Its doubtful that Kenobi knew a lot about Sith Holocrons which are different than Jedi Holocrons. He only answered really the calling from the Jedi Holocron (that came from Maul not Kenobi or specifically any kinda mystic power of the Jedi holocron ) and his take on Maul's motives. That was all his own point of view besides.

Kenobi in Star Wars isnt the saint Kenobi of Filoni anyway. If you want to actually follow the storyline then you'd have to mainly stick with the story from all the mediums. Kenobi in Marvel was a broken down man and struggling with inner conflict , doubt, regret, his predicament and old age and his stories were set shortly before the events of what we see on Rebels. This was again echoed in Star Wars: A Certain Point of View"(which take place during the OT/ANH), with Kenobi's and Jinn's exchanges, we learn that Kenobi was not really ready or really want to die and he still was holding on his certain fondess of youth once being a general and Jedi knight of the Clone Wars. Also remember thats still the same Kenobi on the actual toon that would've left Maul to die in the desert from exposure and starvation ect(a fact that be clearly be seen is that Maul was out there a long time searching and calling out Kenobi that his droid legs were breaking down & falling apart from the weather). Kenobi only breaks his cover and method of destroying Maul to rescue Ezra since Maul knew Kenobi(perhaps better than Kenobi knew himself) would not let the boy die the same fate. He had no intention of facing a fresh Darth Maul in single combat per the Jedi tradition - one that he and Yoda put Luke on to face both Vader and the Emperor.

 

I think you're missing that Maul was not somehow "owed" a combat at all per any Jedi tradition we have ever seen evidence of anywhere. He was certainly still very evil but wasn't poised to destroy the galaxy, he was just a withered, pathetic old villain who was already well on his way to removing himself from the galactic equation by being eaten up with his own obsession and darkness, wandering impotently in circles in the wilderness. There was literally nothing Obi-Wan needed to do about him until Ezra got involved; Obi-Wan had moved on with his life and was doing his job, as a Jedi should. Maul just plain didn't matter anymore until he started dragging others into it (which wouldn't have happened without Ezra's misguided, bullheaded bumbling into events the Force didn't need him for).

Darkness had made Maul pathetic in the end and was killing him as surely as any lightsaber would. Obi-Wan had the insight to recognize that. Maul didn't.

 

Not sure what you're talking about . Maul and Kenobi have a long history and personal duels between them and other Star Wars characters are a constant theme. Maul was indeed threat to everyone, including the galaxy since his return on Rebels. That was part of the tension also being developed after he merged the Holocrons and before when the Malachor temple.

I don't think you been watching the same toon as Maul was anything but withered. Maul could've found another way to draw out Kenobi like wiping out moisture farmers(whom if you read the Marvel comic Kenobi does take it upon himself to protect them from gangsters ect) and other innocents to get the attention of Kenobi(something that had worked back on TCW with Raydonia) but Maul kept things between Force sensitives veteran combatants(Jedi vs Sith/Light vs Dark) and the future of the Force(Ezra -someone Yoda himself took an interest in) . So he used Ezra as bait - but still protected him by killing off the Sand People and calling to him in the deep desert that had kept up Ezra's morale and determination otherwise he would've actually died. Kenobi also took his sweet time to come and get Ezra. Maul was also somehow watching and tracking from afar on foot.

 

A major part of enlightenment in the Force is about learning to let go of things when their time is over. This is brought up quite a lot, including in recent materials like From a Certain Point of View. Their "long history" didn't matter. Obi-Wan had moved on. That is the point I'm trying to make to you. You think OW should be clinging to the past because you can't let go of the idea that Maul should continue being his dramatic archnemesis forever, but the fact is Maul, as a personal "enemy" in and of himself with no innocent bystanders involved, didn't matter to him anymore. And that very clinging to the past, obsessively trying to recapture things that were over and done instead of moving on with life, is why Maul died, and with nothing more to show for it than a moment of pity before Obi-Wan went back to doing what actually mattered.

Maul literally tries to re-enact his past battle in TPM (the victory against Qui-Gon) only to get wrecked because he's living in the past and his opponent isn't, people have broken this down move by move, and it's been quite a while but I believe there were official interviews on the subject too. It's all thematic. Even more thematic than Maul wandering around yelling madly, futilely in the wilderness because he followed his inner darkness obsessively and that's where it led him: lost and dying and ineffectual until Ezra foolishly provided him with one last bit of leverage.

Maul isn't this cool major dramatic lifelong archenemy. His "rival" has moved on and just feels sorry for him, and he will die in obscurity (one way or another) by his own actions. That's who he ultimately is, when it's all said and done: not some badass to be admired for how cool and strong and evil and awesome he is, but an object of pity, eaten up by obsession and negativity and the inability to let go of his past.

The dark side doesn't actually make you awesome, imagine that!

 

They killed him off cause at this point in time they wanted to do so, same as Han or any other Legacy character they want too. They can pee on your leg and tell you its raining, it does not make it so. Besides all that "enlightened" crap was just Filoni's stupid way of rationalizing his that he had watched some Samurai movie and did not want to wast his time in a long typical SW duel , so he reduced it to a lethal kendo gym duel.


The Force is with both the good and bad if you have not noticed. You can walk away with the notions that if favors both or neither, since both take turns wiping eachother out , both gaining and losing dominance, and repeat all over again. Think a snake swallowing its own tail, the ouroboros , the infinity.




All things being equal, Maul was always the superior fighter and more strong in the Force, that was apparent from their duels in TCW and Maul's ability to survive his wound from TPM. During the dark times Kenobi spent years repressing the Force, denying it, so not be outed and killed. He was in trouble, spiritual and he was going crazy from posterity himself . By the time he started getting back into pseudo Jedi things he was too old and battered from old wounds, his fights in the sands took longer than they used to, his body ached too much in pain for him to move like he used to. Kenobi also came close to being killed by Black Krrsantan. Even if Light siders like Kenobi get energy from life or the living even on Tatooine, Dark Siders get energy from death and the dead. Malachor is place loaded with Dark Side energy and place of significance for Maul since that planet once gave Maul incredible Dark Side empowerment during his apprenticeship and it remained a planet steeped in the Dark Side. So too is Dathomir, Maul's place of birth. So Filoni or anybody telling you nonsense about those planets is dead wrong, the planets are certainly nor dead worlds. In fact the ash of Malachor was imbued with the Dark Side. Objects too are embedded with the Force, beings of great power in the Force can leave behind traces of their power in objects from anything from robes to any sort of former personal possession. There is nothing ordinary about Force users, Dark or Light. To place Maul into normal terms is folly, he's anything but normal.

Maul as a Sith Lord, was also trained to not use the Force, to make his body and mind strong to endure and still carry out feats that would leave an ordinary person long since dead. Unlike the Jedi who relied on the Force and their own code, once they cut themselves off from it all, it severely weakened them. Sith Lords trained the opposite, so in many ways they are superior. A Jedi's strength flows from the Force, once repressed or cut off they feel the ill effects, it weakens them. Kenobi was experiencing that in his exile as he hid from the Sith and the Empire. When the Sith hid from the Jedi and the Republic, the repression of the Force made them stronger, it turned their bodies and minds into steel. Once unleashed they become near unstoppable killing machines of unlimited power.

I don't care about the interviews here, those are a mixed bag of alt entertainment, trivia, fun facts, personal opinion or speculation and hyperbole. Noting to do with the discussion. Thats not the storyline and product, they have no real bearing on the actual storyline presented to the audience and what I said. Being that the audience is supposed to draw their own conclusions from the product, Filoni 's opinion is just that, like any other. The enlightened stuff is mainly baloney for the uninitiated and for kids to have a moral yarn , to know the good guy from the bad and how crime does not pay.

The Force is the Force, it has a Light and the Dark, the yin and yang. Filoni's interview version of Kenobi has no basis in the cinematic universe of SW. We already have the Marvel comic and "From a certain Point of View" both do not collaborate Filoni's version of Kenobi, whatever exactly he was attempting to imagine in his head. Hell not even ANH does. And no I don't buy cutting off an arm in a cantina so quickly somehow places Kenobi on a higher moral plain or exempts Kenobi since that was pretty much standard Jedi practice even against non-lightsaber opponents during the Clone Wars(watch AOTC Zam Wessel or Kenobi mind tricking Elan Sleazebag whatever his name was) . And since when has enlightenment ever worked out? Jinn died against Maul, Yoda was defeated by Sidious twice once TCW Season 6 and again in ROTS(heck Windu came closer to killing him than Yoda and Windu was certainly not enlightened). Kenobi was too old and weak to defeat Vader("your powers are weak old man"). Jinn, Yoda and Kenobi were relying on Leia or Luke to destroy the Sith, but it worked out that it was love and self sacrifice from both Luke and Anakin . Not anything Kenobi taught Luke about facing Vader and the Emperor.


In TCW Maul was cured of actual madness by Talzin. Maybe the Rebels team decided to retcon it to "oh he was not full cured" but you cannot pretend TCW does not exist. So it creates what is called a major plot hole and anachronism. On Rebels Maul's "madness", much of it was acts of trickster deception or just a volatile typical Sith temperament as shown on Malachor. Maybe him aging into his 50's and the Dark Side eats away at your mind, sure maybe, but he's a master of the Force not a novice and it still doesnt explain that he was in control on Rebels past the Season Two Finale and other Dark Siders of middle age or advancing years certainly being "mad". Maybe the Sith way is more poisonousness but it does it explain a way the fact that Talzin fixed Maul back on TCW . Maul was on his own self discovery journey and moving closer to the light by embracing his brother and having feelings of conscious and empathy towards family(mother and brother). In universe Maul by the time of Rebels does not seem any different than he was on TCW or even the pre TPM. He used his age rather like how Palpatine/Sidious used his in ROTS and later ROTJ, and both had a lot of mirth. So no I don't buy the madness stuff.

If Maul was losing sense and control of reality there was certainly a self awareness about it. If thats the case then killing Kenobi would make him feel better but there is no evidence of that why would it, taking a life in SW is not like Highlander it does not make you healed in that way. Maybe if Maul wanted to absorb Kenobi's lifeforce but thats not the case or the same manner. Its acknowledged in the TCW he never had any intention of killing Kenobi, just making him suffer like he suffered. towards the end he expressed little interest in Kenobi since got what he wanted. Other alternative was that Maul sense he was losing his marbles and he was not getting any younger than perhaps the best way out would be by being killed like a warrior by the only warrior and man he considered his equal and perhaps brother. Remember that Kenobi also tried to lure Maul away from the Dark Side, maybe Maul remembered that.





The only sense of the Tatooine duel between Maul and Kenobi Is that Maul committed suicide by way of allowing Kenobi the killing blow. That he had no real intention of winning or killing Kenobi. You can deduce that from him stating he was thinking of letting him live in his current state and later the friendly gesture he expressed to Kenobi when he was dying and even the acceptance of death and letting go of any hate legit or pretense. The reality was that it could've went either way, its doubtful Kenobi was sure he'd win, thats ridiculous. Maul defeated him years prior. And if he was somehow sure, then he could've destroyed Vader and Sidious himself and not ever had bothered about training Leia or Luke.



What could be said was simply both where just two aging great warriors that went through a few duels and knew eachother's moves. It was visible that Maul's cybernetic legs were damaged from the desert , his lower half was sluggish getting off the ground when he jumped. Also remember they had long pause and sizing eachother up and both wanted to end it quick with just a few blows. I would sooner think they both stood there a while cause Kenobi was too old to really move around and Maul's legs were busted and he got himself into that position, its over on way or another. Maybe the posing was choreographed to make Maul think of Jinn but we don't see Kenobi doing anything like that with Vader, so thats not likely. I find that hard to think it was intentional since Maul and Kenobi have used similar poses throughout the run of SW. Why exactly would a pose make Maul think of Jinn, it had no particular significance, after Jinn made that pose their was a long duel. Was not like Jinn made that pose and all of sudden he was kicking butt or Maul went in for an upper cut. I think they filmed the scene and someone pointed out the similarity or they came up with some silly posing thing and made it sound more powerful than it actually was in TPM. Maul killed Jinn through superior agility, stamina and fighting ability, not through trickery. Lightsaber combat also involves uses of hilts as a weapon just like real world swords. The one trick pony stuff they'd have you believe is nonsense.

And if its Kenobi thinking of Jinn, so the idea of avenging him seems to be his mind, thats certainly not "enlightened" . The move Maul did use was not the same move he used on Jinn, other than hilt-to-face, everything about it was off and different from set up to execution. Age and skill would only be minor factors, since Maul otherwise was in top form against the Inquisitors and the Rebels. Its also odd how that particular ex-Inquisitor lightsaber goes from a one handed hilt to be somehow long enough to fit both of Maul's hands and be big enough to hit someone with it with the center. That hilt is is no way the same as the Maul's original. Why would Maul not realize that and to do that. Why did the animation magically lengthen it?! All of that is so bad and clumsy mistakes from production stuff not easily reconciled with Maul's level of skill. Maul routinely defeated Kenobi from TPM well into the The Clone Wars. Why would Maul choke up on Rebels?! Writers wanted it...


But again no it was not same move that Maul used on Jinn. Savage Opress armed with his ax staff actually used a move far more similar to Maul's killing blow on Jinn against Master Halsy. In "Twin Suns" Maul was perched down towards the ground and lifted both himself and the hilt up towards Kenobi's face basically, it was far too slow and certainly Maul knew no hilt could stop a lightsaber. So again we have cybernetic legs not working right, not being fast enough, combined with a very strange move made by Maul that makes no sense. Only sense to me is that Maul let himself be struck down, or he lost his edge or just a combo. That would also explain the level of affection Kenobi displayed for Maul. Off camera Kenobi Kenobi gave Maul a funeral pyre that was routine practice gifted to slain or fallen Jedi Knights. Luke only gave Anakin a pyre, not Vader. Kenobi and Vos also took care of Ventress' body. This sorta thing is only reserved for those Dark Siders that were redeemed or forgiven and respected.


I don't see any of the light siders as "awesome" since they're often just as flawed as the Dark Sides, sometimes more so since they preach a different tune and are supposed to be better in terms of ethics and morality. remembers these Jedi have played their parts in a great tragedy and in many ways are responsible for it and repeat the circle over and over again as do the Sith or other Sith-like contenders. Sith and or Sith-like people are often in most cases ex or would be former Jedi even. Kenobi and Yoda sent Luke on a crash journey to destroy the Sith not make friends or go preach peace and love. All dueling and death by the sword stuff. Kenobi was not "enlightened" since he was still brawler in Marvel just a couple of years prior to Rebels. If he was somehow "enlightened" by the time of Rebels that was lost the moment he chose to fight to kill his enemy since he became visibly angry once Maul successfully found that chip in his phony piety he wore as armor in front of Ezra, he found that "someone" Kenobi was protecting. Anger is not the Jedi way and certainly not of the enlightened . In the end Maul got what he wanted from Kenobi, which was a fight.

Now if Kenobi was "enlightened" then he talked things over and threw away his sword or never had one to begin with. Now if allowed Maul to kill him like Jesus allowed them to crucify him thats being enlightened. Being that Kenobi kept onto his sword for so long and possesed & passed Anakin's to Luke is a whole different thing . Kenobi also only allows Vader to strike him down cause Kenobi was an old and weak man and he would use such power after death to threaten the lives of the Sith. Which mainly comes in the form of furthering Luke's training into avenging the Jedi order by the same antics the Jedi used during the Clone Wars. So what changed? Nothing!

The only actual enlightening comes at the end from Maul and Kenobi and in the form of Luke at the end, after their embrace as brothers of the Force and realization that the Chosen One would avenge them both - since both Maul and Kenobi are both warriors of a different era , both in their own way victims that served evil as pawns, and had their lives ruined because of it. So they put their future and hope into the child of the prophecy or the belief in the hope of it.

 

Personally, I found the ending of Twin Suns to be rather disappointing. To me, it came off as the franchise "preserving Obi Wan's kill from Episode I" to satisfy complaining followers. Considering the litany of suffering and loss Maul endured at the hands of the Dark Side, I had hoped that Obi Wan would have finally made him "see the light" (and I don't mean the Light Side of the Force, just the realization that his Path is nothing but a Dead End) and making the decision to break the cycle of revenge on his own. There was plenty of opportunity for Maul to make penance for all his life's wrong doings without involving himself in the events of the original trilogy, and live the rest of his life giving Palpatine, the guy behind ruining his life, the perpetual middle finger by becomming a better man.

But instead, they took the easy way.

 

They admitted ANH kinda 'handcuffed' them creatively in Twin Suns