PT Did Palpatine "allow" force lightning to scar himself?

I've just watched ROTS again tonight and one thing that I always wonder (apologies if you've all discussed it before on here?) is it looks like Palpatine just accepts that Mace Windu will deflect the force lightning back at him, scarring his face.

At the least he certainly does not seem too perturbed by its effects, with his evil sly smile and quick physical recovery ("I'm too weak" my arse!).

There was brief speculation from one member on the Ep VII casting announcement thread that Palpatine might even have been many years older, using the Force to hide his true image until he "lets" the Force lightning reveal his true face.

Thoughts? A willing facial sacrifice or genuine unforseen side effect of his battle with Master Windu?

EDIT: I should have added to my opening paragraph that of course it also makes Palpatine look more vulnerable and in danger of death to Anakin, speeding up his decision to save him, and potentially Padme...?

 

No. Again, I doubt that Palpatine factored in every little aspect of what went down. He's not invincible.

 

Yeah you're right. I did eventually find some other threads that touched on this before (searched for "scar" keyword in the end) and I see I'm not alone in wondering this.

Maybe it's down to the brilliant way in which Ian McDiarmid plays that scene, all simpering looks to Anakin but then devastating counter-attack. Possibly adds to the perceived ambiguity...?

 

check out disfiguration debate at the bottom of this page...

Palpatine - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars Wiki

 

I don't think Palpatine planned to become "scarred and deformed," but he did allow it to happen. He had been taking big gambles up to that point what with having Anakin kill his apprentice, and now with his last ditch effort to convert Anakin over. He likely didn't have a choice at that point, as he knew either he was going to be killed or he was going to go all out in converting Anakin to the dark side. If that meant letting Windu deflect the lightning back at him to make him appear more vulnerable to Anakin, then so be it.

 

Wasn't that essentially just "removing his mask" so to speak?

 

What's basically happening in this scene is that Mace Windu is definitely going to kill him, and the only thing Sidious can do to stop it even just temporarily is to defend himself with the force lightening. It's disfiguring him sure, but at least he's alive for a few more seconds. As soon as he lets off Mace could just swing the lightsaber and end him. You gotta wonder if Sidious could feel Anakin's approaching presence and allowed himself to end up in this position. He's a master tactician and even better gambler. Either way he begs Anakin to stop Windu and it only helps that the force lightening is making him look helpless and vulnerable. It's pretty perfect really.

One thing I love about this scene is it parallel to ROTJ. In both films you have a scene where Palpatine is using force lightening. In ROTS it's for defense, and in ROTJ it's for attack. Both scenes include three characters and the potential seduction of a Skywalker. In ROTS the Skywalker gives in and becomes a Sith, thus beginning the extermination of the Jedi, and in ROTS Luke and Vader prevail and the Jedi return. The parallels are wonderful.

On a side note, when I saw this in the theater for the first time that demonic darkside voice that Palpatine uses and the way the scene is shot when he knights Darth Vader really chilled me to the bone. One of the best scenes in the 6 movies so far.

 

No, I can't imagine taking force lightning to the face is a pleasant experience.

 

That depends on what you want to believe. I seem to recall GL indicating it was just the lightning scarring him, whereas Rick McCallum mentioned it to be a mask. Either line of thinking could be correct, depending on your point of view. I tend to suscribe to the idea that it was simply the lightning being reinforced by the lightsaber, similar to how sunlight being shined through a magnifying glass can cause extra damage.

 

If the Plagueis novel is anything to go by, he deliberately absorbed the lightning that hit him into his body, making himself more powerful in the dark side but scarring himself in the process.

 

I believe that in the ROTS novelization he intimates that the Palpatine face was a "mask", but the remark was a bit cryptic and not definitive, if I recall correctly.

 

The "mask" that Palpatine was referring to could be the kind senator/chancellor personality, not the physical face. Even if his scarred look wasn't his true form, it definitely symbolizes the revelation of his true personality.

 

I've always felt that his true "face" was the deformed face, and that his power with the dark side allowed him to take his "normal" facade.

Once Windu/Sidious went down, and the lightning came out, I thought he was gradually peeling that mask away.

But is it entire plausible that he allowed his own lightning to deform himself? Absolutely. I just don't see it that way. It would be nice to get confirmation from Lucas or from McDiarmid, as to how they see it.

 

Hahaha! True, there is that.

 

The issue with "deformed" is that it's very symmetrical.

On top of that, Palpatine's hands are normal in the immediate aftermath, but black-nailed and pale by the end of the movie.

Suggesting that some degree of "dropped disguise" is in play at least.

 

That's kind of how I took it, that this was his true self, and it's kind of a theme Lucas played around with. If you watch Willow, Quuen Bavmorda begins to transform as she increasingly uses her black magic. Lucas is kind of suggesting that there is a price to pay for playing around with these dark arts...

 

I remember this topic being debated endlessly at the time RotS came out. To me there's no doubt the lightning deformed him. That's the simplest explanation. It was directly electrocuting him to the face & as it did he became deformed. This theory that he was holding back his real look & it came undone coincidentally at the same time as lightning was coursing through his face is very far fetched IMO.

Does the novel shed any light on this?

 

It's more that the lightning destroyed his disguise - which he did not need to actively hold up:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mask_(Sith_Alchemy)

 

I thought we established that the lightning melted the mask that Palps used to wear to hide his crystal meth habit.

 

I wish this Youtube were in HD. But you can see over the course of this sequence Queen Bavmorda's appearance changes... that's kind of the effect I think Lucas was going for in ROTS.

 

In the novel it does state that once the lightning is deflected back at Palpatine he only intensifies the power, which would add to the theory that he doesn't care that he will be deformed, but that was probably spur of the moment.

I tend to believe it was a combination of lighting damage and the exertion from channeling that much power revealing Sidious' true form. Like Iron_Lord stated, it seems coincidentally symetrical, and how do you explain the nails not changing until later? Plus why would his teeth discolour and his voice change. Also, no one else hit by lighting is deformed.
It's just cooler to think it is more than mere electricity that seems to melt his face (it seems to go through stages during these moments which seem too fluid to be mere deformation). I mean there is definitely something supernatural going on, when he pleads "Don't let him kill me!" his voice sounds distant, like the scene is in some kind of dream state.
Plus the thunder in the background perhaps an indictator of a storm in the force generated by the actions of these three powerful individuals.

On Palpatine sensing Anakin's arrival; it seems very likely. Whether he threw the fight is more debatable, but you get the feeling he wasn't planning on killing Mace until Anakin arrived. I know Lucas says Mace won outright, but I doubt Palpatine didn't predict Anakin would show up even as the duel first started.

 

Regardless of how his deformation came about, it was unnecessary as all it did was give us the Emperor we remember. Unfortunately, if we are honest with ourselves, the prothstetics looked nothing like the ghoulish face we got in ROTJ. Such a waste.

 

In The Golden Voyage of Sinbad the evil Sorceror played by Tom Baker ages when he uses magic. It's the price he pays for the power. The more powerful the magic the older he gets.

So I think it's something like that. Compare the ferocity of his force lightning compared to Dooku's. If you go full out and use it continuously as ferociously as Sidious did then you see what happens when there is no recovery time.

If he only used it to a certain level he could recover and keep the Palpatine visage but he was using every bit of it to keep Mace off of him so held noting back.

It's an interesting question of exactly how much Sidious planned of what was going on and how much he did on the fly. Was he really in danger from Mace or could he have killed him anytime he wanted to with the lightning? Was he just chancing that he could use Mace to lure Anakin in with the knowledge that it might backfire and he would lose?

I always felt his cowering was feigned but the novel say's it wasn't but on the other hand that was based on an earlier version of the script before Lucas made some more changes in shooting adding the cowering scenes which could be interpreted as him not being in real danger as he could take Mace out when he wanted. Then again it could be that he is in danger but sees the future and that he has Anakin so he's going to be saved.

 

The lightning does not deform Palpatine at all. That is Palpatine's true appearance. The dark side warps a dark side user's appearance. Lightning doesn't disfigure Luke, and Palpatine fries him for a good long time. Lightning also wouldn't cause someone's eyes to turn yellow-red, his teeth to decay, and his finger nails to grow into talons, and all of this happens to Palpatine. The unmasked Vader is also sickly-looking. Of course, he's scarred by his injuries, but he also has a sickly pallor and sunken eyes that have nothing to do with his injuries. (At the time of ROTS, GL also knew that Anakin was Obi-Wan's pupil, so he knew Anakin was younger than Obi-Wan, yet he chose to cast Vader with an actor 9-years older than Alec Guiness -- again showing that the dark side goes against a person's life force.) Even in the SWTOR online game, dark siders get all sickly looking.

GL also says that Palpatine is simply faking weakness in ROTS commentary when he's using Force lightning to defend himself. He could've kept it up, but he wanted to force Anakin to intervene to turn him to the dark side, so he played helpless. The novel says that the lightning is actually strengthening Palpatine, I believe. It also says that Palpatine stops using the lightning to defend himself the instant before Mace was about to give out, presumably pushing Mace to brink and inciting him to want to take his life. Also, it's obvious that Palpatine hasn't exhausted himself because the instant Anakin chops off Mace's hand Palpatine springs back to life and goes back to frying Mace full force -- Unlimited Power!!!! Anakin thought that Palpatine was so tired that he was defenseless. He was simply intervening so that they could arrest him. (GL says this in the commentary as well. Ian McDiarmid also states that GL told him that his disfigured appearance is Palpatine's true appearance and that the kindly senator is the facade.)

I think the real question is whether the reflected lighting forced Palpatine to return to his original appearance or whether Palpatine purposely dropped his Force mask. There isn't very strong evidence either way, but his apparent disfigurement does serve Palpatine's purposes so well that I go with idea that he chose to drop the Force mask. It makes him look helpless to Anakin and his "disfigurement" serves as evidence against the Jedi and creates sympathy for him in the Senate.

I usually agree with your sentiment, but I think in this case it's different. Palpatine is a master deceiver. It's sort of like watching a magician. On a TV special, I saw David Copperfield make the Statue of Liberty disappear, and since I saw that, that would mean that the Statue of Liberty did disappear. The whole purpose of magic is to deceive. The whole purpose of Palpatine's behavior in that scene is to deceive Anakin. That Palpatine succeeded in deceiving much of the audience when there is evidence to the contrary is arguably just more evidence that his deception was very well done.