Did Riina Kwaad Kill Lord Nyax?

Just rereading EL, and I can't help but notice;

In the scene where Tahiri attacks Nyax, she

-->'Swims in pain' whereas other people 'drown in it'.
-->Has an alien gleam in her eye that unnerves Luke and is seen by Nyax
-->Is capable of using Vong weapons, including thud bugs, without their resisting her
-->Can barely be sensed in the Force

I'm wondering if perhaps Riina Kwaad was the one who killed Lord Nyax, not - as it seems on the surface - Tahiri Veila? I doubt it; but any thoughts?

 

Maybe both. I have to re-read those books again.

 

Perhaps... but I'm leaning more towards Jacen having something to do with it in Destiny's Way. NO, not the cause -- just the hastening of the effect. I don't think the Riina consciousness was around until after that point in DW... and not realized until Remnant...

 

J_K, at first I was going to disagree with you & say it was Tahiri, but then I went back to Rebel Stand p.289-292 & I think you're right, she was definetly tapping into the Riina side. And it seems deliberate, too!
p.289 There was something in Tahiri's eyes that sent a chill down Luke's spine. " He could fight the Jedi by feeling us in the Force," she said. "He couldn't feel the Yuuzhan Vong, so he had to watch. Well, I'm both."

So maybe this throws out the idea that Jacen might have hurried along her personality breakdown. Perhaps Tahiri did it to herself when she voluntarily tapped into her Vong memories to fight Lord Nyax. Or maybe each time the Vong traits are used they are strenghtened and then the Riina personality tries to take over Tahiri's body more. Just ideas...I'm still kinda attached to the Jacen idea though.

 

Yeah; in the next couple of pages, where Nyax looks at Tahiri, he sees 'something alien' in her eyes... I agree, at the moment there are too many possibilities! The two might go together though;

-->Tahiri tapping into the Riina Kwaad persona helps elevate the problem
-->This is accentuated by Jacen's probing her in DW

*shrugs* They're not necessarily mutually exclusive!

EDIT: The thing that interests me, is this; Guerre (sp?) points out in FH2 that Riina lessened the blast of the bomb, showing she's not evil. Perhaps she's already proved that, helping to kill Lord Nyax?

 

I'm thinking the same thing. She's (Riina) also shown that she wants to be accepted by the people she already considers her family. For example, when she told Jaina, Anakin's trying to kill me ,in Remnant, she was obviously reaching out. Then in Refugee she told Jaina that now she wanted her (Riina) dead just like Anakin had.

p.200 Refugee She was so lonely; she was so alone. Anakin's family could have been hers, but now instead they were frightened of her. They were suspicious of her and tried to push her away. Everyone was pushing her away. Everyone except -
Then Goure wakes her up. I've asked in several threads if people had any thoughts on who Tahiri would feel wasn't pushing her away. Well, I've thought it was Jacen, and now I'm even more convinced of it.

Riina is being seen as evil but as you pointed out she's really done quite a few good things, and I think she carries all the love & affection for the "Family & Friends" that Tahiri does.

 

I think part of the problem is that the Tahiri/Riina of Rebel Stand was sorted... she was, as she said, 'both' Jedi and Yuuzhan Vong. But Jacen encouraged Tahiri to put a sort of distance between her and the Vong by looking at them through her vongsense... which meant treating Riina as something external...

Hence the mess she's in now...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

I found the theory that Jacen may be partly responsible for the appearance of the Riina personality to be quite interesting...

Although It was my understanding that until the Force Heretic trilogy, the Vong side was something Tahiri was able to turn on and off, with no actual personality, it may have in fact been Riina who did it. However, it seemed, particulairly in Edge of Victory 2, that Tahiri was simply accessing information from her Vong parts. She seemed to be able to flip some mental switch, and get the vong information, controlling ships, the language etc. then simply turn the mental swithch off again when she was finished.

 

So, Tahiri was able to co-exist with Riina fairly peacefully and even access those memories & use that knowledge when she needed it until she (Tahiri) started to think of Riina as an intruder?

 

I believe:

From the moment of birth of Riina's existence, there became two mindsets, Tahiri's and Kwaad's. After Anakin "woke" Tahiri up, and she became the dominant personality again, although the personalities were separate, some of the emotions and memories of each personality merged with the other.

This part is mostly conjecture, but when Anakin was being interrogated, I think Riina emerged, breaking out and breaking in, up to the part where she says Do roik Vong Pratte. Then Tahiri is back, she knows what's happened but doesn't want Anakin to know it wasn't her but Riina. Later, when he confronts her about it, she doesn't let him know the whole truth, and perhaps at some point Riina takes over, and when she says, "It's nothing, just words. And I would never hurt you." I believe that Riina may have fallen in love with Anakin, remember, she was captured by the Yuuzhan Vong commander, and probably doomed for death unless Shimmra intervened. And the line "I'll never join the Yuuzhan Vong" confirms this. Then Tahiri is Tahiri again.

In Rebel Stand, Tahiri can't stand against the pain, against Lord Nyax. Perhaps unconciously she calls for help, maybe for Riina to help. Riina takes over, and becasue of many various reasons, stops Lord Nyax

Now Tahiri gets scared, seeing how powerful this persona is becoming. After Anakin's death Riina has been coming forth more and more often. She still hates the Yuuzhan Vong, and still doesn't want anyone to know of Riina. She resists the lesson from Jacen, and the pressure inside of her increases.

Eventually, things get so out of hand that Riina has full control of Tahiri for some moments, so much that Tahiri can't remember what happened.

And unfortunatly I still don't have FH2 yet, so if anything contradicts, my bad. And some of this came from JK Dart's brilliant Post SBS AU story.

 

Nice ideas, Rogue of Peace! I especially like the idea that Riina is in love w/ Anakin too. That would explain a lot, because many of Tahiri's & Riina's feelings would be mirrored and we, the readers, wouldn't immediately know the difference meant when she says, "I." Does she mean Tahiri or Riina? It also falls in nicely with the whole "Anakin is trying to kill me" thing.

Where can I find J_K_Dart's Post SBS AU story that inspired you? I'd like to read that.

 

Hi there, ROP! Yeah, it's been amazing me how much NJO has been following DS plans!

You can find Darkness Shaped in my bio, TSF! Unfortunately it was put on hold due to DRL overload, but *will* be finished asap - oh, and be warned; if you try reading it - it's looooooooooooooooooong...

I like your theories, ROP, and tend to agree with them. In Conquest, the Yuuzhan Vong parts are still there, but in Rebirth you almost get the feeling there's another part to Tahiri - another persona. This is most prominent when she says, "sometimes I even think in it [Yuuzhan Vong]" and in the rescue scene you mentioned. However, I'd suggest the persona was weaker, simply because Tahiri was younger. As you grow, your mind becomes more complex, and has the *capacity* to become more complex - Tahiri's ordinary growing-up would make the problem inevitable.

In EL, it seemed... strange. Tahiri seemed a lot more healed, as though both parts had combined and become one. And yet in spite of that, we have to notice two points;

-->First, Tahiri doesn't automatically seem to do Vong-ish things - implying there's a switch that has to be clicked
-->Second, 'something alien' is visible at the times she's almost a Yuuzhan Vong

In DW, Jacen tries to bring out the Vong side of the Force, and I too like the idea that he drew Riina Kwaad out, perhaps strengthening her; and then that can tie in nicely with the explanation given in Refugee...

I like the ideas that Tahiri as a person cares for Anakin's family, *as does Riina Kwaad* - I also like the ideas that Riina too was in love with Anakin. This *would* confuse us when reading 'I' and seeing how torn-up Tahiri was... and gives DR a nice escape for if they dropped the ball

 

Even though we don't know if Riina loved Anakin, we know that she knew that Anakin loved her, because when Anakin declared his love to 'tahiri' in conquest, she was in her Riina mindset. =P

 

If you are to interpret the Lizard God statue as representing Anakin, then it seems Riina fears Anakin (because she fears the statue).

In FH, it has been Riina chasing Tahiri, and the Lizard God chasing Riina, presumably as each predator is planning on destroying its prey.

Riina begs for life from the Lizard God in Tahiri's dreams.

 

Thyrsan4Blood wrote:
...it has been Riina chasing Tahiri, and the Lizard God chasing Riina, presumably as each predator is planning on destroying its prey.

Ok, now go with me here. Think about Luke's vision in the Dagobah cave. And now consider the fact that both Tahiri & Riina are force-sensitive and facing a time of trial, where much of the galaxy's future possibly depends on what she does, much as Luke did in ESB. Now we have considered the idea that Riina is not acting out of evil, so perhaps in the visions she is not chasing Tahiri in order to harm her (just like Vader would probably not have struck Luke in his vision, but Luke attacked first), Tahiri has run away before Riina is allowed to approach her. Now think about the visions from Riina's point of view. Is the Lizard God (Anakin) chasing her (Riina) in order to harm her or is he merely trying to reach out to her? I think we might be seeing Tahiri's & Riina's force visions simulatiously merged, just as their personalities are merged and blended right now.

 

Since when was Anakin a wizard?

 

I believe Riina finally caught up to Tahiri in Refugee, and it doesn't seem like Riina killed her, but then again the cliffhanger at the end of the book suggests Riina is in complete control while Tahiri is "gone." But how that came about is up for debate.

Wasn't Riina originally designed to hunt the Jedi? If so, it must make it difficult for her and Tahiri to co-exist.

 

Sorry, JediSmurf, what about Anakin being a wizard?

I just can't help feeling that Anakin and Tahiri's story isn't over. It is so incomplete!!! And I know anti-returners will start screaming at me that he shouldn't come back, and I don't want a hokey come back either, but there is more to all this than meets the eye IMO.

 

i actually meant lizard. But I guess if you read 'wizard' you think gandolf

 

Holy crap. I've never thought about this before.

But then again, I haven't reread EL since FH came out, so maybe it's not surprising.

Oh, and on a totally unrelated note, Freac? I am still completely amazed by your cover art...my only gripe is that there aren't any X-Wings on your TUF cover.

 

You know, the recent developments in Tahiri's character really, really make me...uh...kind of agree with DelRey's decision to kill Anakin.

It was a smart way to further the plot, the more and more I think about it. Anakin was kind of already developed to death with the "OMG I killed Chewie!" Anakin's death developed Leia and Han, Jaina, Jacen, Luke, Mara, Kyp, and of course, Tahiri.

I think that Anakin wasn't necessarily what held Riina back. I think that Riina held herself back when Anakin was alive so she could win his approval, but now that he's gone she has nothing to lose.

Fetty: thanks...nice to see a friendly face and look harder, there ARE x-wings. =)

 

JediSmurf,
I agree about the character developement, but boy do I wish it could have happened w/o losing Anakin Tahiri has been a favorite of mine for a long time, but I loved her in Rebel Stand with Luke & Mara. She would never have had such a stand out part like that before, because most authors would have written her only as Anakin's supporting character. Like you said the same can be said for many others, Jaina, Jacen, Han, Leia, Mara, Luke, Jag, etc.

 

Yes, Anakin's death catalyzed Tahiri's character development. But then again, we could still be at this point if Anakin had never rescued Tahiri from the clutches of Mezhan Kwaad and Nen Yim.

So far, I believe Anakin's death has served little purpose on the overall aspect of the NJO and EU, just one less character to write about for the authors.

But his resurrection will be equally worthless IMO.

 

After reading FH2 I thought it was time to go back to what REALLY happened in conquest, because my memory isnt what it should be. Then, i read about Anakins dark vision of Tahiri(Riina), In wich she said

"The last of your kind"
"The las of MY kind"

Now, we all assumed the vision was about Tahiri beeing shaped and vaping the last of the "infidels", but what if it was the other way around? After the events in FH2 i totally saw Riina going dark and making some serious Vong-Suey at the end of NJO.

Only problem would be that this would mean the war is over, and the rest of the jedi would have a rather nasty "split-personality dark/light jedi" on their hands, now how is Luke gonna solve that one ?

 

The way Luke resolves everything in the NJO: by not doing anything at all.