PT Did Sidious reveal his true identity to Gunray before sending Vader to kill the separatists?

In my head canon I always imagined he told Gunray. What does Canon and legends say?

 

I was under the impression that none of the Seperatists except for Dooku knew that Sidious and Palpatine were one and the same..

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

No. There is no source that says Darth Sidious told his true identity as far as I'm aware in canon or legends. I dont see why Sidious would feel Gunray deserved to know.

The CIS leaders do seem unusually calm given that they are losing the war and being ordered by Sidious to disengage their armies. Given that they are hiding from the Republic, I assume they were hoping that the Republic would negotiate their free trade zones in exchange for shutting down the droid armies. The CIS leaders would throw the entire movement under the bus given they were mostly corporate backers and not true separatists.

 

Why would he need to?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

I don't think he spelled it out in as many words.
The relevant question is if they had access to the holonet on Mustafar. If they watched the declaration of a new order its possible they figured it out for themselves.

 

If they did, then they would not have stayed on Mustafar..

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

Good point, but I guess that depends if Palpatine's speech was in real time from Anakin's assassination of the CIS leaders. Anakin had already begun cutting them down before Palpatine announced the Empire in the film, and I assume with the cutting between the two scenes, Lucas intended that it was all going on at the same time.

 

I kinda think communications were cut off, and Palpatine as Sidious made up some claim that the Republic won't be able to track them

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

Hmm, good point. The rank and file members of the Seperatists probably had legitimate gripes, but the various heads like Nute Gunray or Wat Tambor were only concerned with lining their pockets.

I dont think Sidious told them to disengage their armies; I think he told Anakin to send a master control signal after he slaughtered the leaders.

Now that I think about it, did Palpatine interact with the CIS heads in any significant way like he did with Gunray & Haako in TPM?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

Indeed. The corporate CIS leaders had control of the Separatist war machine by Sidious's design. With the corporations under control of the Sith, Palpatine could control the CIS.

In the ROTS novelization at least, Nute tells Sidious that the droid armies are being disengaged from combat. Vader sends the order to the Federation to shut down all the droids. Palpatine likely knew the CIS leaders wouldn't completely shut down their droid armies without guarantee that they would be allowed to return to the Republic without being detained or charged for war crimes. Now, that was the Legends explanation, but it would make sense given Nute's "The plan has gone as you have promised, my Lord."

That is a good question. I know in Legends, Sidious facilitated the relationships with Wat Tambor and Poggle The Lesser, helping them to gain their positions.

 

In the movies, no. In The Clone Wars, I believe Palps, as Sidious, does communicate with a couple of other CIS leaders. I think Wat Tambor, and I think the leader of the Banking Clan, but I'm not 100% on that.

 

He definitely doesn't converse with Tambor, and San Hill doesn't even appear in the show.

 

I'm pretty sure he contacts Nix Card, the banking clan senator. Which is where the confusion comes from.

 

In which episode?

 

In the prequel films themselves, it's clear that the Trade Federation is dealing directly with Sidious at least some of the time right up until the end. However, while the novelization of The Phantom Menace implies Lott Dodd knew Senator Palpatine was Sidious' secret identity, I never really bought that. Novelizations have a history of being wrong anyway. Going from the films, Dooku's claim that he helped Nute Gunray after the Federation was "betrayed" by Sidious is a cover story. Others might disagree but I really don't think any of the separatists had a clue who Sidious really was. I'd definitely enjoy trying to work out the whole issue but I think a key conversation is Grievous' report to Sidious regarding the loss of Count Dooku. Grievous knows he works for Sidious, but doesn't know a republic victory is the plan. He might know the Sidous' secret identity, but if anyone else does they must be assuming that he has a plan for ending the war that will benefit them. But Dooku initially promised all of the Separtist leaders an actual victory.

 

I figure since Palpatine was merely a senator and not the Chancellor, he was able to directly communicate with Nute Gunray & others in TPM, whereas by the time of AOTC-Clone Wars-ROTS, he has Dooku to do that for him...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

The Clovis Arc of season 6.
Off the top of my head I think it is the second one, right after Padme leaves the Banking Clan Council says something like "The only way they could get access to our secret accounts is if one of us told them"
Then it immediately cuts to Card giving the information to Sdious over hologram.
That's just off of memory though.

 

I wish they had the Trade Federation leaders find out Sidious’s identity when Vader arrived. It would be fitting for them to find out the truth in their final moments of life.

 

In the Novelization, San Hill is the first to greet him. As he pulls back his hood, he recognizes Vader as Anakin Skywalker before he is killed..

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

Gunray and the other Separatists know just about as much as Dooku tells Obi-Wan in Attack of the Clones: Sidious is a powerful Sith Lord who exercises influence over hundreds of Republic senators. They don't know how or to what extent, but they know he can manipulate things from within the Republic to make stuff happen. There's no way they suspect he has the level of control he really has, or else they'd never go along with it. I think even Gunray would be smart enough to figure out he's become part of something much too sinister for his own good.

 

Pfft! No! Palpatine’s not a moron. Although it’s a bit weird that, when they’re arrested at the end of Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace, they don’t just say, “A hologram in a cloak made us do it. In fact, he looks like Palpatine. Sounds like him, too! We have the recordings of the hologram. Do you wanna look at them?” I find it hard to believe that these guys never started pointing fingers after they were caught.

 

I was under the impression that the cloak covered his face, and he disguised his voice when talking to the Neimodians...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

Maybe but I still have a hard time believing that these nimrods wouldn’t immediately declare the whole thing a frameup and start screaming that they were patsies as soon as the jig was up.

 

So Bibble did indicate that Nute Gunray was still Viceroy despite going through 4 trials in their Supreme Court. Maybe Palpatine convinced him that everything would play out perfectly if his instructions were followed

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

Yeah, but Count Dooku explicitly says in the next film, “The Viceroy of the Trade Federation was once in league with this Darth Sidious, but he was betrayed ten years ago by the Dark Lord. He came to me for help; he told me everything.” So unless Dooku was lying, it does seem that at one point, they thought that Sidious had double-crossed them, and if they thought that, then why the hell didn’t they just start screaming bloody murder as soon as the jig was up?