Did Thrawn respect Ackbar's skills?

I completed yet another read of my very thumbworn copies of The Thrawn Trilogy. As I was reading this time, a thought occured to me. A major component of his war against the New Republic was getting Ackbar removed from the supreme command by placing flase bank deposits in his account via Imperial worlds. I began to wonder if this particular move was deliberate from a military sense, not just a political one.

Obviously any member of the Provisional or Inner Council could of been framed. No matter who, it would of caused tremendous upset in the fledgling New Republic. So, the question is whether Thrawn repsected Ackbar's skills as a commander enough to warrant him trying to get Ackbar removed.

I was going back and forth on this idea until I re-read The Last Command. In it, Thrawn launches his attack on Coruscant shortly after Ackbar leaves the capital on a inspection of New Republic forces on the frontlines. Did Thrawn time this so that he would not have to face the tougher opposition of Admiral Ackbar commanding the world's defenses?

Note, this thread is NOT a Thrawn/Ackbar/insert random fleet commander is better debate. Obviously Thrawn did not fear facing Ackbar, as they did at Bilbringi. The question that I am wondering is if Thrawn's specific targeting of Ackbar was designed to ease his own war against the New Republic.

I am curious on others thoughts of this.

--Adm. Nick

 

Well, unless I'm remembering incorrectly, Ackbar was the best military commander the Alliance/New Republic ever had. He retained his position for decades, and was personally responsible for the strategies and tactics which won several important campaigns.

Thrawn knows this; he's done large amounts of research on every prominent commander of the New Republic. He also knows that Ackbar is successful in large part because of the symbol he is: he's Mon Mothma's general, the partner of the benevolent head of the NR government, and has been for most soldiers' entire careers. Having Ackbar out of the way serves a double purpose: it takes Ackbar's experience and tactical genius out of the fray, AND lowers the morale of the NR forces. So, it would be a good strategy, whether Thrawn actually respected Ackbar's skills or not.

It is my belief that he did; in fact, I seem to remember a passage in HttE, where Thrawn is explaining to Pellaeon the reasons for discrediting Ackbar and makes a remark like "It simultaneously thrusts the Rebels into disarray and takes their best general out of the fight." Don't have the book with me, though, so I may just be imagining this.

 

Good points. I think that Thrawn is not given enough credit for his trying to discredit Ackbar. It is rarely mentioned, but I think that it was perhaps one of the most crucial aspects of his campaign, up there with gaining cloning technology and a cloaking device.

--Adm. Nick

 

Given the fact that Ackbar led the forces in the Attack on Death Star II, where the Alliance should have gotten obliterated, I would think that Thrawn has some respect for his Commanding skills. In RoTJ, facts are facts.

#1. This was no holds barred. The alliance wasn't going to keep it's best and brightest out of the fray for another day. They threw everything they had at this opportunity. Thrawn knows that Ackbar was in charge there and knows that he was selected because the Alliance felt he was the man for the job.

#2. Ackbar is dedicated 100% to the cause and hung in against seemingly impossible odds. Ackbar was willing to die that day. Courage is an underestimated part of war.

#3. As stated before, the undermanned alliance beat the pants off the imperial fleet and destroyed the Death Star, Vader, and the Emporer.

#4. Many of the cruisers present at the battle of Endor were Mon Calamari. It's not likely the Mon Calamari built warships without having an idea how to wage war.

Did he think Ackbar was on par with him? No. Did he think other members of Alliance high command were on par with Ackbar? Probably not. We see how quickly things went downhill for the Imperial fleet when the lost Thrawn. Thrawn probably knew the same would happen to the alliance if they lost Ackbar.

Carnage

 

and a clocking device.

Ah yes, the Rebels trembled in fear once Thrawn unveiled his chronometer

Thrawn would know that Ackbar has beaten GAs in the past; while I'm sure that he's supremely confident in his own abilities there can't be any harm in removing his enemy's most experienced fleet commander. After all, his replacements weren't nearly as effective (i.e Drayson.)

 

Ah yes, the cloaking device...

I edited it. Thanks for catching that.

I was specifically thinking of Drayson as well. I would wager that the only other commander in the New Republic that Thrawn respected the skills of would be Garm Bel Iblis.

--Adm. Nick

 

Probably not. He thought everyone was beneath him.

And they both wore white after Labor Day, so what did they know?

 

It suddenly occurs to me that this is the exact same tactic Palpatine used in Cloak of Deception to give Valorum the boot. A coincidence?

 

Dude, Ackbar got mad skillz! Thrawn got ownzed!




...or some such.

 

Considering Ackbar's fight with Thrawn's colleague Syn...he'd deserve respect

 

Anderson was the 1st to pov Ackbar, but Stackpole really made him a full character in his povs.

 

I will provide a slightly different approach to how Thrawn viewed Ackbar. I do not believe Thrawn respects ANYONE including the Emperor as being his equal in commanding a battle. That would include Ackbar. Thrawn believes that he is superior enough to anyone, that no one can beat him.

That being said, Thrawn respected and recognized that Ackbar was the best the New Republic had, and Thrawn not being given to ego nor wanton death and destruction, chooses to take Ackbar out of the picture before the battle starts. Even though Thrawn believes he is superior and would best Ackbar, he feels there is no need to prove it, and the lower amount of casualties the better, so open battle and warfare is still the last option after you have weakened the enemy as much as possible.

 

Yes. But Thrawn wouldn't let his ego get his men killed. When he went to war it was to win. Not to prove he was the best. He could have fought Ackbar and won at a larger cost to the Empire than if he went head to head with anyone else. He wasn't about to lose even one Star Destroyer because of his ego.

Kind of like someone who fights to win and kicks his opponent in the nuts at the beginning of the fight. Could he win without fighting dirty? Almost certainly, but he would take some punches if he fought fairly.

 

For men like Thrawn and Ackbar "setbacks" are only that, as long as they are still around to keep fighting on.

Rukh stabbing Thrawn in the back, now that was a disaster.

 

Backstab, not setback.

 

Thrawn had a cautious respect for all of the decent commanders he faced, throughout his career.

It doesnt mean he wasnt convinced he was better, though

 

Thrawn was working wih limited resources at the time. Why make his job harder by taking on someone who could possibly challenge him when he could wreak greater and more cost-efficient havoc on his enemies with Ackbar's absence? It would've been a foolishly egotistical move, and although he had quite the ego, he was that pragmatic.

 

Comparing Han to either Bel Iblis or Ackbar is giving the nerf herder way too much credit, I think.

 

IIRC, it was after Ackbar left that Thrawn implemented the asteroid trick, right? Perhaps it served a dual purpose. The obvious one of preventing the NR from getting supplies or doing anything terribly useful from Imperial City, but also to prevent their best commander from returning.

 

Wedge might, as well, come to think of it, though he (like the others) does far better at smaller battles. I'm just thinking of little trifles like his handling of Isard and her (relatively competent, at least in general) forces at Thyferra, not to mention his domination of the Yuuzhan Vong at Borleias and the way he managed to hold his own despite overwhelming odds against him at Bilbringi late in the war. Certainly, though, he'd have been hard pressed to match Thrawn even in that arena, much less in strategic engagement. He's always been more tactical - it's the pilot coming through.

Han's good, there's no denying that. It's largely for the same reasons that Lando does well. Neither of them play by the rules. They think about the world in different terms - it's high-stakes gambling, plain and simple, and whoever can bluff and outmaneuver better wins. It makes them dangerous because they're pretty good at outguessing their opponents, and (perhaps more importantly) they're not afraid to throw the traditional way of doing things to the wind and just going with it when it suits them. Wedge has a similar tendency on that last count, actually.

- Keralys

 

I don't see Han coordinating the attack on Endor, or defeating Thrawn at Sluis Van, or formulating fleet strategy, or coordinating the defense of Coruscant. And I don't see Ackbar or Bel Iblis storming off in a huff when Mon Mothma bruises their ego, then refuse to return to service when both their enemies and loved ones beg them to.

So don't just state examples that suit your own argument.