Did Vader not really want Luke to turn to the Darkside

In Return of the Jedi in the way Vader acted towards the Emporer it seemed that Vader did not really want Luke to turn. In the Empire Strikes Back Vader was chasing after Luke because he wanted Luke to be with him. But after Luke showed his defiance towards the Darkside Vader seemed awfully hesitant about trying to turn Luke.

So did Lucas show that as away of showing Vader's love for his son and he didn't want to force the Darkside on to him. Or was there some other reason as to why they turned Vader into a big softy in Return of the Jedi.

 

I'd say that't true. Vader was never fully a Darksider. Remeber what other characters said: there was still good in him. His love for his son and Luke's love for his father is what redeemed him.

 

Well I only think that Vader stayed with the dark side is because he thinks there is no other way for himself. Like he said: " It's too late for me, my son".
Luke still has many other possibilities. He can become a great jedi, far greater than he (Vader) ever was. Also the thought that Luke could lose everything he loved and cheriched (spelling??), was too much for Vader, he didn't want his son to go through what he went. Even though he tells him that Leia maybe be a good sith, it was just in front of his master. There was no real meaning for that sentence. So no, he didn't want his son to become a sith. It only meant pain and death for him.
MasterYoda5 [face_alien_1]

 

During the Empire duel Vader made it known to Luke that he wanted to them both to be Sith together.

Once the Emperor got involved with the aspect of turning Luke to the dark side of the Force, Vader pretty much went along with Palpatine's plan and did away with his own. While Vader was searching for Luke during the final part of their duel below the throne room he is still urging Luke to turn to the dark side. I don't think Vader himself turns away from the dark side until Luke actually spares his life and foolishly tosses away his lightsaber when Palpatine is present. Once Darth Vader witnesses Luke defy the Emperor the Sith plan on turning Luke to the dark side fades away and that's when Vader is thrusted in with this new good guy persona.

 

During the Empire duel Vader made it known to Luke that he wanted to them both to be Sith together

Because at the time he though it was the only way for them to get close like a father and son.

 

Vader wanted Luke to turn. The reason that Vader blocked Luke's saber in ROTJ (Pre PT) is that Vader was loyal to the Emperor.

 

Vader wanted Luke to join him and kill the Emperor and rule the Empire with Vader as the Master and Luke the Apprentice. It's not out of love for his son however, it's out of the knowledge that anyone with the Skywalker bloodline could become a powerful Sith.

 

Turning Luke to the dark side was likely Vader's way of getting out from under The Emperor's thumb. Combined, Vader and Luke could have taken Palpatine/Sidious out, and Vader could fulfill his wish of ruling the galaxy himself--a wish he'd had as far back as Mustafar.

 

I would direct my friend here, but I'll just paraphrase what she will probably say:

"Vader only did what he always does, and that is sacrifice anyting and everything for his own selfishness - in this case he killed the Emperor not to rid the galaxy of Evil, but only to save his son. He wasn't actually redeemed, he just continued on his old ways."

I agree with the premise of that in that I believe that it is possible that Vader didn't care one way or the other whether Luke turned to the Darkside or not, as long as he was safe. Vader didn't care if they were together "evil" or "good", as long as they were together. So I don't think Luke turning entered his mind as being a "bad" thing.

 

To me it seemed very apparent that in RotJ there were moments when Vader was thinking "what am I doing? I shouldn't be doing this to my son."

The Emperor says to Vader "I wonder Lord Vader if your feelings in this matter are clear...." Showing that Emperor senced some confusion in him.

During the scene on Endor after Luke is trying to convince his father to come with him. That he won't turn him over to the Emperor, Vader says "you don't know the power of the darkside. I must obey my master." This sounded very forced to me, and he's basically saying I don't really want to, but the dark side has a hold over me. Then Luke looks at Vader and says, "then my father truly is dead." Look at the pause Vader makes. The body language tells me that he's confused again.

 

Vader is conflicted from the time he spares Luke's life on Bespin to the time he saves Luke's life above Endor. Vader was indeed trying to turn Luke to the dark side. Luke was trying hard to turn Vader back to the Jedi ways. It just so happened that Luke won in that regard.

 

Vader beleives that the darkside is for the good of the galaxy. he beleived the jedi were evil. he wanted luke to join the darkside with him so they can rule together. he never thought of becoming a jedi again.

 

QFT

 

Vader was pulled in two directions: between what Vader wanted and what Anakin wanted. There was a huge amount of conflict within him.

 

it was eluded to in AOTC when Anakin basicly said that a dictatorship is what is best for the galaxy. when padme asked if he was making fun of her with that outragous statement, he replied, basicly "No." so it's not just Vader who adopts the darkside as the way it should be, but it is also Anakin.

Politically ana/vader beleives the darkside to be the right way of things. if there is conflict it has nothing to do with the darkside, or whether his son should be a jedi or a sith. the conflict is whether to destroy his son or save his son.

 

I don't know if it was specifically a dictatorship that Anakin was referring to; you COULD have a benevolent leader like the Queeen of Naboo for example who commands things in the best interests of the people.

 

I agree with the majority of posts here. Vader is obviously conflicted. There's no doubt he wanted Luke to turn. Vader is still Vader, evil. Right up until Luke coming out of hiding in the ROTJ duel he is pushing him to the limit's still trying to turn Luke.

As another poster mentioned I agree that it was only at the time Sidious was frying Luke did he wake up. Before that Vader, no matter how conflicted still went along with Palpatine's plans. Even if they did differ, Vader still was loyal to him until the redemption.

 

The scene is AOTC was actually demonstrating the effects Palpatine had on Anakin.

But yeah, Vader was hesitant that he would lose another loved one to evil. And realized that he was being played like a ninetendo. So basically, if you had a friend who screwed up everything in your life, and made you feel like it was your fault. Wouldn't you be awfully pissed when you realized he was behind it all, and trying to take away the last thing you had left? That's where the good in Anakin takes over, he realizes Palpatine was behind the whole thing and doesn't give a crap about him. He kills him because of all the evil things he's done, and to keep him from doing any more damage.

 

Vader was naive, but he wasn't stupid. Last time he lost someone he loved to the Dark Side his whole life was destroyed. And as someone said before, there was always good in him. He thought of redemption and maybe a better future for his son, IMO, but he hesitated because Emperor's influence was still too strong.

 

I wouldn't give Vader as much credit.
He's had 20 yrs of being a galaxy wide bada** and he's
supposed to all of a sudden get sentimental? Doubt it.
He was not as far gone when he choked his wife so doubt he's
gonna turn mushy now.
I think he sees Luke as his ticket out from under Sids rule if
anything. With Luke by his side he could defeat Palps and be free
of him. What he would do with that freedom, I dunno.

 

I would say yes, cause Vader gave up hope on becoming a Jedi again. He did not know the true power that he had. I fear it was because of Dark Sid. He even told Luke that thinking that Vader would go through with it and stay, but the love of his son turned him back!

 

ý think darth vader is an idiot.Because he was turn .

 

The Return of the Jedi novel is quite clear on Vader's intentions. He was not anticipating Luke to be as strong as he ended up being (Sith arrogance) and he still had his selfish plans to turn Luke and rule the galaxy as father and son. However, during the battle it became quite clear that the Emperor was essentially trading in Vader for Luke and Vader knew he was a pawn. This, coupled with Lukes idealistic but also brilliant attempts to turn Vader back to the good side finally helped give Vader the sense that he was strong enough to renounce the dark side. The final act to push him over the edge, of course, was Luke throwing his lightsabre away (not foolish at all, it turned out) and saving Vaders life and making the right choice, the good side, after flirting with darkness. This gave Vader the power to reciprocate for his son and kill his Master ... who ended up paying for his own sith arrogance and, well, happily ever after.

 

ok listen Darth Vader showed in the books and movies that he wanted to be with luke as father and son he also shows that he belives that the empire is for ever lets not make a sanit of a sinner he wanted to kill palpatine and to rule the empire he figured out that luke was alive and he instantly planed there monarchy something the Palpatie couln't do

 

umm ... right. he did plan to rule the galaxy with his son ... but then he was beaten by Luke, betrayed by the emperor, and watched his son not only refuse to kill him but also refuse the dark side despite facing certain death from the emperor. Luke trusted his father. people can call him foolish if they want but he was right wasnt he?

Believe me, noone is less sympathetic to Anakin than I. that being said, he did save his son and come back from the dark side and embrace Luke, the Jedi, and kill Palpatine, the Sith. Certainly not a saint, not by a long shot, but he was redeemed.