Saga Did Yoda foresee the entire saga?.

All thru the saga. Yoda never seemed to be surprised by events that took place. Hurt and upset, but never surprised.
Even during the security holocron footage in the Jedi Temple, Yoda warned Obi-Wan of what he would see and even spoke as though he had already known Darth Sidious was the true identity of Palpatine.
So I'm curious if Yoda had already foreseen what was going to happen thru the saga.

 

I think if he had he would've been more proactive to stop palpatine.

 

No. Yoda tried to stop Luke from facing Vader at Cloud City. As the saga turned out, that first meeting had a critical effect on their final meeting, which led to the downfall of both Vader and Palpatine. If Luke had taken Yoda's advice and stayed on Dagobah, he might have developed the skill to defeat Vader (and that's a big maybe), but I highly doubt he'd be able to stand up to Palpatine. So things would have turned out badly if Luke hadn't disobeyed Yoda. If Yoda foresaw the way it really happened, what was the point in arguing with Luke about rescuing his friends? That makes no sense.

 

I might be misremembering, but didn't Yoda get a vision of the future in TCW when he went to Moraband? At least up to the events of RotS?

 

That's the serenity that comes with being and behaving like a Jedi.

Things turned out badly because Luke disobeyed Yoda and Obi-Wan.

He had a vision of the Jedi being killed. And later on a vision of his last words.

 

No, the end of ESB is not how things turned out, the story was still ongoing, and the way things turned out was a great happy ending with Palps gone and Vader redeemed shortly before his death. And all that would not have happened without the difficult lessons Luke learned by going to Cloud City to rescue his friends. It was a tough time, sure, but necessary, and not the end of the story.

 

In the end, Luke won the day by following his own path. Yes, at great cost and not in the way he intended, but he won.
And Yoda may have been serene, but he clearly didn't foresee everything. Just as Palpatine wasn't responsible for everything that happened during his rise to power.

 

The decision that Luke made in TESB was the wrong one, that was the whole point. And he suffered the consequences of his mistake. That the story ended up turning alright is irrelevant to the argument. It turned out alright despite his mistake, which he fortunately learned from.

Of course it wasn't the end of the story. That's not my point.

You can't make the claim that what ended up happening in the end wouldn't have happened had Luke followed Yoda's counsel. You don't know that. What we do know is that the decision he made was wrong. That he should have stayed, finished his training, learned the truth at the right time and then act accordingly. Instead he almost got himself killed, or worse, almost got himself captured and converted by the Sith.

He won the day by following the Jedi path. By letting go of his anger and hate. By refusing to turn to the dark side at the cost of his own life.

Yes.

 

I don't think we're going to agree on this.

 

I figure it's less "he knows already that Palpatine is Sidious" and more "he knows already that Anakin has turned".

In AOTC, Yoda senses that Anakin is "in terrible pain" - so he can sense some Anakin-related things. Knowing that Anakin has turned, could be an extension of this.

 

I'm always struck by how Yoda gave Palpatine the 'stink-eye' toward the beginning of Attack of the Clones. He knew something wasn't right there, even if it was still hidden from him. He's also the one Jedi who didn't want Anakin trained. In both cases, he refers to the future being 'clouded' if I remember right.

 

Yoda said that the future was always in motion, difficult to see. When Luke has his vision of events in cloud city with vader ,han, chewie and leia he asks Yoda will they die? Yoda cant tell if they will or not.

Yoda may have given Palpatine the stink eye in AOTC because of the scenes he was witnessing with the Grand army Of the Republic. The grandiose show of power.

Yoda may have had force premonitions but he had no idea how the events would enfold. I dont think he believed Vader could be redeemed so its a no from me.

 

Maybe I'm reaching here, but to me, predestination smells like absolutism. And we know who deals in that. "It is your destiny!"

 

Its also worth remembering the Dark Side cave on Dagobah doesn't show actual visions of the future, but rather what one fears the most.
In TCW Yoda had a vision of the order falling, things lined up pretty close to reality but not identically (Cloaked Sidious, Eeth Koth in for Agen Kolar, etc.).
Yoda knew things were getting bad, he may have even been mentally prepared for the worst, but he couldn't and didn't know everything that would happen. He himself said the future is always in motion.

Beyond that the fact that Yoda is 900 years old also likely played a role in his reactions. There is very likely little he has not seen in that time, and he likely understands human nature very well. He can offer advice, but can probably tell pretty quickly who's likely to take it to heart vs who's not.

 

I don't think Yoda had foreseen the entire saga. Not one bit.

 

Wait, wasn't Windu also opposed to training Anakin?

 

Windu expresses the Council's decision (before the Battle of Naboo). After the battle, Yoda tells Obi-Wan that the Council have changed their minds (and, in the novelization, makes it clear that he himself is still opposed).

We don't know exactly what was said when the Council changed their minds - but since Mace was chairman of the Council at that point, holding the title "master of the Order"

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Master_of_the_Order/Legends

Master Mace Windu held the title during the last years of the Republic's Golden Age, stepping down after the Battle of Geonosis so as to take a more active role in the Clone Wars. Grand Master Yoda took up the title in Windu's absence, as he remained on Coruscant to serve as Supreme Chancellor Palpatine's chief military adviser.[4]

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Master_of_the_Order

Jedi Masters Mace Windu and Yoda served as head of the Order, in turn, during the late era of the Galactic Republic.[1]

I think it's likely that he himself was in favour, rather than opposed.

It would take a powerful opinion to sway the rest of the Council against Yoda's dissenting opinion, and Mace seems like the most likely candidate.

 

He sensed Anakin turning the minute he helped kill Mace, all the way from Kashyyyk. We see a shot of him frowning in the film during that scene. Other than that, I don't see how he could have anticipated either Palpatine being a Sith Lord or Order 66. He would have taken action long ago.

He also wasn't sure if Luke was to be trusted upon meeting him in TESB, although it is debatable whether Yoda's initial refusal to train Luke was an act or genuine skepticism of his ability to undergo the training. .

 

I doubt that Yoda had foreseen the entire saga. I doubt it very much. If he had, Yoda would have sensed that Dooku would end up being a major threat to the Order and the Republic. And since Dooku had been Yoda's personal protegee, I doubt very much that he had sensed Dooku as a future threat or had foreseen the entire saga.

If Mace was head of the Order, the movies and "The Clone Wars" had failed to convey this. I came away with the feeling that although the Jedi Council usually voted on important matters, it was Yoda's opinion that mattered a lot. Not always, but a lot.

Mace, like Yoda and the other members of the Jedi Council, had initially opposed the idea of Anakin joining the Order, let alone that he was the Chosen One. I noticed that in "Attack of the Clones", Mace seemed open to fulfilling the Chosen One prophecy, whereas Obi-Wan was not. Yoda, on the other hand, kept quiet. But in "Revenge of the Sith", Obi-Wan had finally accepted Anakin as the Chosen One. Yet, Mace no longer was open to the idea and Yoda had finally expressed his disbelief in the prophecy for the first time since "The Phantom Menace".

Perhaps initially. But in the long run . . . perhaps it was a good thing that Luke had learned Vader's true identity when he did.

 

A distinction needs to be made between leading the Order as a whole ("Grand Master" and leading the High Council only ("Master of the Order") - the second title is something of a misnomer.

Sometimes a character can hold both ranks at once (TCW-era Yoda) and sometimes the two ranks are split (pre-TCW period).

 

I never liked that storyline. It was very unecessary and it went against his actions in "Revenge".

 

Yeah, I wasn't a big fan of it either.

 

LUKE: I saw...computer generated racial stereotypes...boring subplots...endless fan service. YODA: It is the future you see. LUKE: The future? YODA (nodding): Films, there will be. Prequels and sequels. LUKE: Will they be good? YODA: Err...rest I need. Yes, rest.