Do Padme and Bail Organa Betray Anakin?

OK, I think this little theory is interesting, not sure if anyone has thought of it before.

The speculation is that some sort of betrayal will finally push Anakin over the edge. But where will this betrayal come from? And by who? Well, if you put the pieces of the puzzle together, you can make a pretty strong case for Bail Organa and Padme.

Anakin is away at war...after years of separation, perhaps Padme and Bail somehow come together and become involved romantically. It sort of makes sense if you think about it...why in the world would Bail adopt Leia unless he had some special connection to the Skywalker family? He is a senator on Coruscant, probably separated from his family on Alderaan the way Padme is from Anakin. Padme would not trust her daughter to just anyone, she would want to make sure Leia is cared for by someone she knows and loves. So she leaves him with Bail.

Perhaps Anakin comes home from the war and finds out about this betrayal (from Palpatine?) and is pushed over the edge. Maybe he even loses all control and kills Padme in a fit of rage. This could even be the event that finally turns him away from life and love, and to the Dark Side.

Also, it kinds of makes sense in terms of where the two twins are hidden. Luke is hidden on Tatooine, in the very spot where Anakin suffered his greatest loss. Surely he would never want to return there, and Luke would be safe. The same would hold true with Leia, if Organa was a reminder of a horrible betrayal, Anakin would never want to go near him, and she would remain safely anonymous. It would also make the scene with Vader viewing the destruction of Alderaan all that much more intriguing, knowing he at last saw the death of the man who ruined his life.

Wild speculation, but if you think about it, it would work pretty well. Not sure about the killing Padme piece, but this turn of events would certainly turn Anakin not only against his wife, but against the Senate and the Republic, further driving him into Palpatine's control. I've read that this film is supposed to be rather Shakespearean in nature, this would definitely fit the bill for that.

 

This theory has been brought up at different times, same with the Obi-Wan/Padme love triangle.

I don't believe for a second that it will actually happen. It would really make Padme and Bail the bad guys, when they are without a doubt the "good guys." We're supposed to feel sympathetic towards Anakin, but this is too much. Padme would become an adulterer and Bail a wife-stealer and that's just an extraneous element that doesn't need to happen.

The betrayal Anakin feels is more toward the Jedi and Obi-Wan I think. If it is directed at Padme then it's probably because she went to Obi-Wan for help, or turned aganist Palpatine, or hid the kids from him. A love triangle would complicate an already complicated story uneccessarily. When a triangle happens in Shakespeare it's almost always in a comedy, and it's the focus of the story. Here it would be neither. I don't think kids watching would really understand either.

 

I sure as hell hope this doesn't happen. Looks too much like "Melrose Place".

I think Anakin will be afraid something will happen to Padme if he doesn't turn, and that's why he turns.

 

Hmmm...agree with RS_77, I do. And a_g as well, in that SW ain't Smellrose Place.

It would certainly surprise me, but in a bad way I think.

It doesn't fit what I know of Padme's character, nor Bail's: they are to be seen, I think, as the 2 "good" Senators, 2 healthy apples in a barrel full of rotten ones.

Plus, if Anakin killed Padme because she cheated on him, even more people would identify with his turn to the Dark Side than when he slaughtered the Tuskens...

and I don't think we're meant to sympathize with Anakin to such an extent.

Hmm...ponder this I will...

One important issue is this:

How involved is Padme in hiding the Skywalker twins?

If (a) she is not really involved, then perhaps she IS dead and Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Bail try to make the best they can of the situation and take the twins into hiding.

But (b) if she IS involved in hiding the twins, and perhaps Bail gets involved b/c she confides in him, there must be some reason she is wary of Anakin.

I mean, if it's her decision or she is involved in the decision, clearly Anakin must be already leaning towards the Dark Side.

Does that mean that something else causes his turn?

Or he has already started to turn (but can still come back), but this last "betrayal" pushes him over the edge?

It will be interesting to see how Obi-Wan tries to turn Anakin back from the DS and what he says - it's not going to be the calm rejection "Obi-Wan once thought as you do"...

Anyway, a further complication of this theory is that they'd have to do a DNA test to establish who the father is.

Wouldn't that be...an interesting twist, if Leia Organa actually WAS Leia Organa, but Luke Skywalker was actually Luke Organa?

Silly Luke - Vader wasn't your father after all!

Then either Bail or Organa would have to have Force-sensitive relatives at some point....

 

I agree w/ the above posters that an affair is unlikely, but who knows for sure especially with the fact that Lucas' wife had an affair on him. SOmetimes people write about their own experiences.

I don't think that Anakin is coerced into going to the darkside. He willingly chooses it and embraces because he cannot control his anger and will reach a point in EP 3 where he no longer even cares about trying. He is going to reach his point of no return where he doesn't care anymore.

 

Well, there would seem to be only one thing that could truly push Anakin to evil, and that is losing Padme, like he lost his mother. Whether he loses her by death, or by betrayal, I think the impact is the same. I can't see any other relationship or scenario in the film causing him that much emotional distress, and driving him to hatred and rage.

So, if we conclude that Padme will be the catalyst, then we have to consider what exactly happens that causes her to become lost to him. I think an accidental death would not cause him to turn evil. Nor would her being a casualty of war. And having someone else kill her intentionally would probably not turn him completely to evil. After all, he did see the error of his ways in the slaughter he committed on Tatooine when others killed a loved one.

Thus, I really feel that the only thing that could turn his life completely upside down is if she betrays him. Additionally, we can safely assume that in order to become Darth Vader, he will have to wholeheartedly embrace the Dark Side. Someone who suffers the loss of a loved one will endure different stages of grief, but it probably isn't likely to drive them to evil. On the other hand, someone who has had the rug pulled out from under them by someone they love and trust is much more likely to turn into a raving madman. On Tatooine, he had an outburst of rage, and quickly recovered. So I think this shows that he is capable of handling grief and the death of a loved one. We do know that he is pretty much an obsessive stalker ("I've dreamed about her every night since we've been apart"..."I can't breathe") and turning into a madman when scorned seems right up his alley. With Palpatine waiting in the wings to play on this, I can totally see Anakin relishing the Dark Side. A scorned lover is far more dangerous than a grieving spouse.

And in terms of this being too Melrose Place (which was a good show, by the way...) take a look at AOTC and check out the melodrama and sappiness. Obviously the 'love' component of this relationship was being set up for some deeper, perhaps darker purpose. I don't believe their relationship was created merely as a mechanism for Anakin to have offspring, I do believe it was created to be the basis for his fall. And as someone mentioned before, Lucas' has several painful breakups in his past, so much so that I think he pretty much doesn't even date anymore, so you know that has to weigh on him.

 

I could see Anakin going ballistic because of Padme having an affair, but I don't see Lucas writing it this way simply because of his own experiences. I mean, think about it--it would almost make Padme's affair, and therefore the extramarital affairs of all women, look good, and I doubt Lucas wants that. Besides, Padme is supposed to be an honorable character, as is Bail Organa.

 

How would it make her affair seem good? I'm not sure I follow.

I agree that it isn't likely that Lucas will take this path, but it would be very intriguing, and very 'adult,' which is what I saw someone in the movie quoted to describe the script. It has also been stated that we will sympathize with Anakin.

I don't know...I really can't see any other sequence of events leading Anakin to embrace darkness so deeply. It has to involve Padme in some way.

 

I think this is a great idea it would leave nobody for poor little ani to trust except the dark lord of the sith.

 

Interesting for sure but you have to ask yourself are we supposed to feel sympathy for anakin's turn? Did the PT set us up to feel differently about Vader when we see him in ANH? If so a betrayal does make sense if not then the betrayal wouldn't fit. This would as was stated before make Bail and Padme into the bad guys and Anakin's anger will be in some ways justified.

Do you think that is what Lucas is going for?

 

I think Lucas is setting us up to see that Anakin suffered many bad experiences in his life, but that ultimately, the decision to turn evil was his, and his alone. I don't think he will be tricked and deceived into it, I think he will give up on hope and happiness and embrace evil.

So, a betrayal does make sense. It will make us understand and sympathize with his pain. But in no way does it make the viewer agree with or sympathize with his decision to turn to evil. He could have moved on with his life, but instead he decides to wallow in self-pity and anger and lashes out at the world by turning to the dark side.

Luke felt betrayed and lied to by Ben and Yoda, the two characters he looks up to and respects the most. He also had his sister threatened by Vader, which nearly pushed him over the edge. So we sympathize with him. But he also has the strength of character to know right from wrong, and stay on the path of right. Anakin, by contrast, does not have that strength of character, and his decisions show the consequences of that weakness.

 

Without going too far off topic:

"...if you start with Star Wars, then Vader?s just the villain, and that?s it. But you don?t realize that he?s a human being, that he?s got problems you don?t realize that he could have been saved, that he was tricked and can be resurrected." - GL

Rick felt "saddened, shocked, angry and betrayed after reading the story of Anakin's downfall." - RM

"Anakin/Vader does what he does because he believes he's doing it for the good of the universe."- HC


Yes, we are supposed to feel pity for Anakin. But not the kind of pity that comes from finding out your wife is cheating on you. It's a far deeper kind of sympathy that stems from knowing where he came from and how a series of unfortunate incidents, bad decisions, and manipulations cause him to turn into exactly what he despises. We pity how a good life went so wrong and we can identify our own weaknesses in him.

 

Interesting. It would explain why Leia remebers her mother being "kind..but sad". She was proabbly sad because she felt guilty about screwing around behind hubby's back while he was fighting the good fight. Besides, no one can resist the smoky good looks of a Jimmy Smits.

 

Well...let me ask this question, then. For those who don't think he is betrayed by Padme, what other chain of events could lead to his complete betrayal and fall? Remember, whatever happens has to be so bad as to push him from becoming a confused but essentially good person to the embodiment of ruthlessness and evil. He basically needs to give up all hope of anything good in the world and turn to hatred and suffering and anger. That's a pretty big leap. We know from AOTC that the only thing that seems to be able to push him to complete madness is the loss of his mother. It is going to take something equally as horrific to turn him completely dark.

I can't imagine some Jedi scheme to lie to him would really push him that far, or if Palpatine is manipulating him. I definitely think it has to do with Padme. Either her death or her betrayal. Padme keeps him real and keeps him sane. She is his anchor. Without that, he would be lost.

 

Death makes far more sense. Her death doesn't turn her into the "bad guy". Some kind of betrayal does. But Padme is a heroine, plain and simple. I'm not saying Anakin doesn't think she may have betrayed him, maybe that's true, but I seriously doubt she is, in fact, betraying him.

 

The thing here is that Lucas has already done the "Anakin's loved one dies and he goes off the deep end" storyline in AOTC. Doing it again in Ep III would be like instant replay. I'd really like him to make it a little meatier and deeper in Ep III. There is no reason to think that Padme can't be flawed and do something bad. Not evil, just a human mistake.

 

I concede that it's possible. It just seems completely out of place. The SW saga follows a very simple storyline. It's a traditional tragic hero story (but with a happy ending). Adding one more element like this, so far into the already established story, is awkward and there just isn't enough time to fully explain it. It would be a major plot point that people would expect time to be devoted to it. There's just too much going on, too many questions to answer already. An extra level of complication would be detrimental to all.

It is an interesting point that her death would be a repeat of Shmi's. But at the same time, it's a cycle. Circular themes are frequent in classical tragedies. The stakes are raised this time. I doubt it's only her death that does it. Instead of the half-assed blame Anakin lays on Obi-Wan for Shmi's death, this time he will truly believe it is the Jedi who are responsible for Padme's. And he could quite possibly believe Padme has betrayed him somehow. This death will be more dimensional and profound than Shmi's, even though the comparison is just.

 

If I had to put money on it, I would go with the "Padme dies and Anakin blames the world and turns bad" storyline. But I think that is the easy way out.

I don't think I mentioned the reason I posted this thread, which was the latest Republic comic that focuses on Bail Organa. I was quite surprised to see it rather blatantly and obviously laying the groundwork for the reasons behind Organa adopting Leia. I began to wonder if perhaps they would use the between films EU material to begin easing people into a 'friendship' between Padme and Bail that could be brought to a more romantic fruition in Ep III.

 

Actually, storm, you make a pretty good case for it.

I agree with rs_77 that it doesn't seem to fit the SW universe though.

What lies heavily in your favor, IMHO, is that Lucas already showed Anakin losing it b/c his mom died.

But let's not forget that Anakin saw his mom once in 10 years - yes, he was mad, but he was able to put it past him by the end of AOTC (at least, on the surface).

Now he's married to Padme - closer to her than ever before - she's pregnant - he probably knows she is pregnant.

So either way, he's got a wife (and kids) whom he loves very much.

Now, it's possible that he becomes bitter over the Clone Wars, b/c he doesn't get to see Padme enough.

Maybe she dies (or "dies") while he is away on some mission.

Bah - I'm rambling.

I think the problem with this thread is that it has become a debate between betrayal by Padme's adultery or shock from Padme's death that is responsible for Anakin's downfall.

But if Rick is "shocked, saddened and betrayed", those are pretty heavy words.

I think Obi-Wan and the Jedi Order have to tie into this, and also Anakin's relationship with Palpatine and Anakin's political views (prolly developed by Palps) that the Senate is inefficient and useless.

I can see Palps telling Anakin: "Anakin, I know you thought that as the Clone Wars are over, the corruption and inefficiency of the Republic would end, that peace and order would be restored to the galaxy. But I tell you that greed and corruption will never end - we need to bring order to the galaxy together." (et cetera)

It's even possible Anakin goes to Padme with this idea and she rejects it out of hand - Padme is no doubt more sophisticated than Anakin in some ways, particularly in politics.

Anakin doesn't seem to like grey areas - he wants things black and white, and his impatience wears at him.

 

They don't have to have an affair. Anakin may just be jealous of some sort of connection there. Anakin can just think something is going on.

But, I don't see this happening anyway. I have the opinion that Anakin feels he must turn to save the galaxy. Much like in ROTJ when Palpatine tells Luke turning is the only way to save his friends. I'm sure Anakin believes this is the only way he can save his. He believes he is doing good, yet gets pulled in too deep.

The simpathy is important. I think Anakin is doing what he feels is for the good of the Republic.

 

"I have the opinion that Anakin feels he must turn to save the galaxy. Much like in ROTJ when Palpatine tells Luke turning is the only way to save his friends. I'm sure Anakin believes this is the only way he can save his. He believes he is doing good, yet gets pulled in too deep. The simpathy is important. I think Anakin is doing what he feels is for the good of the Republic".

I agree. Anakin will turn because he feels he is doing what is right for the Republic. We saw his ideas for the perfect republic in AOTC - those changes will have happened by the time of the original films. And I don't think Anakin is betrayed by anybody - he may think he is betrayed but he won't be. Anakin is the one who will betray his friends - not the other way around.

 

perhaps Padme will get more sort of illness that will shorten her life? something that can't be cured.....just a thought

 

Yeah!

Padme to Anakin: "Your love is like bad medicine, bad medicine is what I need! Whoaaa shake it up just like Bad Medicine there ain't no doctor who can cure my disease!"

 

That's my theory. I don't think she will die during the movie but will be incurably ill or mortally wounded and go to Alderaan to die in hiding, spending what time she can with Leia. Which is why Leia remembers her.

 

"Padme to Anakin: "Your love is like bad medicine, bad medicine is what I need! Whoaaa shake it up just like Bad Medicine there ain't no doctor who can cure my disease!"

We should look into rumors of a Bon Jovi appearance in EP III to confirm this rumor.