CT Does anybody else view "A New Hope" as the weakest of the OT?

From a cultural and cinematographic perspective A New Hope was probably the strongest. After all, it was the movie that started at all as well as completely changed the art of film making. It is also the one film that can stand completely on its own. It would still be just as good even if no other Star Wars films were made.

As an installment in the six-part Star Wars saga however, I feel it is the weakest of at least the OT if not the entire saga. By saying this, by no means am I saying I don't enjoy it or don't think it was a great film. When watching the saga from Episode I to Episode VI, I enjoy "A New Hope" the least of the six. Here are the reasons why.

1) Its flow is entirely different than the other Star Wars movies. Instead of functioning as an installment in a six-part saga, it feels like a completely standalone movie. It's especially noticeable when watching the movies I-VI.
2) Luke is just as whiny and just as annoying as Anakin ever was in the prequels
3) The aimless wandering of the droids on Tattooine, as iconic as it is, is prolonged and gets somewhat boring
4) It's very shallow in terms of lore compared to the other movies. We learn that the Force is a mystical energy field. We learn that there was once an Old Republic that was replaced by an Empire. We learn of something call the Clone Wars followed by the "dark times" and that Darth Vader is a fallen Jedi who once fought side by side with Obi-Wan Kenobi but very little else. I guess the mystery of it all is what was so intriguing but it doesn't work well when watching them I-VI. For this reason, to truly appreciate A New Hope one much watch the movies IV, V, VI, I, II, III.

Once again, I don't think its a bad movie by any means and I really do enjoy it. I just think its the weakest as an installment in a six-part saga. The movie is best if you have no knowledge of or completely ignore the prequels going into it. Does anybody else agree?

 

You raise some interesting points here

Yes, I can see where you're coming from here, but considering that at the time GL wasn't quite OMG GEORGE LUCAS!!!!!! yet, he wasn't guaranteed that there would be more movies after that. He had a hard time even getting that one made, according to interviews I've seen and read over the years. . But I understand the disconnect you're talking about.

This...yeah. You're right here. In fact, this point was the reason I once used a joke status on Facebook (I think) "Star Wars: The only movie where a whiny kid and an old guy in a bathrobe can save the galaxy"

I've started feeling like this a little more over repeated viewings. I admit, it is a little slow moving, and ties into why I'd be good with not seeing Tatooine in another movie for awhile.

This I personally disagree with. I feel that we're given all the real essential information without getting bogged down with unnecessary details. Might could've used a few more things here and there, but not much. I don't personally need the rest to appreciate it more, it's just icing on the cake. That's just me though, of course

 

I by no means think SW is the weakest SW installment nor do I think it doesn't work as part of the Saga. It may read to some as a standalone because when made it wasn't known the others would be done. SW like any SW film has flaws it simply varies what speaks to the individual. That's fine.

 

I didn't care for Luke at all when I was a kid. Now I appreciate him.

Star Wars, the original movie, was pure mojo. Lightning in a bottle. Hell, it still is. What movie has better stood the test of time? Blade Runner or Alien maybe?

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I loved aimless wandering of Droids, but realize that I enjoyed The Hobbit Unexpected Journey primarily because of pacing. I can catch my breath. It is like watching Lawrence of Arabia in that sense. It isn't like the movie didn't develop quickly. It did.

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While ANH is different from the other two in tone, lighting, and other aspects, I definitely do not see it as the weakest. One of its strengths is that it was a "standalone" installment. That part of the saga works best as a "standalone" film. We see the Death Star blow up and see it as a victory and don't care about the rest of the Empire, at least not me. When I watch the others, I feel like I have to watch them together or after watching ANH. I can watch ANH and not feel a need to watch the others, and get a full Star Wars experience, and it has been the one I've watched the most in the last few years (mainly because it's the only Despecialized Edition I have and watching the "bonus discs" aggravates me.) Regarding your fourth point, ANH's story elements have more to do with the rest of the saga than The Phantom Menace's did in that trilogy. That is a film that begs more, especially knowing there is more. Luke's "whining" never bothered me and I never associated the word with what he does until I got online in the late '90s. While the droids in the desert bit feels lengthy watching the movie for the sixtieth or whatever time, it really isn't. The scenes go by fairly quickly.

 

1) Most people would argue that holding its own as a standalone film makes the original Star Wars stronger, not weaker.

2) Even as an OT fan, I will admit that Luke comes across as too whiny at times in Star Wars and Empire. However, he's not as whiny as Hayden, and Mark Hamill is certainly a better actor, although that speaks more to how terrible Christensen was. Finally, the writing and storytelling were far better in the OT, and that made Luke's character less irritating as well.

3) Part of the problem with the SE Star Wars ... there are too many added scenes that destroy the pacing in the beginning of the film. This accentuates the slow pace of the droids in the desert scenes more than the original version.

3b) The added CGI gremlins do everything they can to break the 4th wall. They don't look realistic either. And altogether they take you out of the story and make you conscious of the fact that you are watching bad special effects in a movie, destroying the suspension of disbelief. All of this at a critical moment in the story, when the storyteller is trying to hook the audience and gather them in. Another reason why the SEs are so ghastly unfortunate.

4) I'm going to surmise that you are viewing the film through the lens of someone who watched the prequels first, maybe even prefers them. The prequels are extremely pedantic and spell everything out in myopic fashion. In other words, the stories are told like someone reading an Expanded Universe Encyclopedia, with some fights and effects thrown in the middle to keep you from getting bored. Someone who watches these films first will feel like they already have a strong understand of the GFFA and the Force.

In their original context, the GFFA and the Force were completely unknown concepts to viewers. The Force was presented in a more mystic fashion, because viewers would have approached it with some combination of wonder, bemusement, disbelief, belief, curiosity, and the like. But in the context of watching the prequels first, all of these concepts are lost and the narrative, I imagine, seems strangely out of place.

 

What is it with this site and wordy responses?

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OP, I totally get where you're coming from and some of the things you've outlined are sensible to me. ANH feels so much like a standalone film because it originally was created as possibly being one. Just in case sequels didn't get made, GL had to give the film a clear sense of what the overall Star Wars story was by putting in as much of it as possible. If he got around to doing sequels, then great. Otherwise, the film would have to make sense and feel like it had a concise ending. Of course, GL did in fact make ESB and ROTJ. Both of those films look quite different and feel at least a little more modern than ANH, but they still feel very much like sequels to it. The prequels were made quite a bit later, so their feel and style is certainly different from the OT. Add in the tweaks GL made to the films along the way, and you have a six-film saga that tells a singular story but feels a bit like pieces of different puzzles put together (I have no doubt that the new trilogy will further this effect). If GL had made the six films in chronological order and wasn't worried about whether or not they would all get made, I think there would have been more seamlessness to them

ANH is my personal favorite Star Wars film, but I don't believe it's the best. Again, I agree with some of the points you've made about ANH, but I do not agree that these things make it the weakest film in the saga.

 

I've found that, in a way, ANH has gotten more interesting with the addition of the first three episodes. Before, it functioned mainly as the opening chapter, the introduction. It was great fun to watch because of the nostalgia factor and the interaction between the characters, but I felt that the real stuff, the progress, the drama, happened in TESB and ROTJ! Those were the best parts simply because they were more exciting. Of course, it helped that they were more sophisticated and bigger, from a production standpoint.

Now, though, ANH also functions as part 2 of ROTS and with that in mind, I find it fascinating on a whole new level. To me, the end of ROTS and the beginning of ANH mesh perfectly. This gives the opening of ANH a layer of emotion that was completely missing before. The appearance of Tantive IV, the entrance of Vader, the droids, Leia, Luke, Obi-Wan... All of that carries more weight than before and suddenly, it seems infinitely more interesting and important to see what will happen next. I mean, this is the continuation of a monumental tragedy!

So, I guess I actually prefer ANH as part of the Saga.

 

You make some interesting points here, but I must vehemently disagree with your assertion that ANH is the weakest of either the OT, or the saga. In my opinion, it is the best.

To address your points:

1. It does have the feel of a standalone movie, but I don't consider this to be a weakness. When ANH was released, it quite possibly was going to be a one off and the story being told at that point was quite different to the one which was eventually told across the saga. In my opinion, the initial story is superior. The fact that ANH works as a one-off story or a part of the saga story is testament to its greatness.

2. That's a matter of opinion. In my opinion, although Luke is on the whiny side, he is not in the same league of annoyance as Anakin, due to other differences in their personalities.

3. Movie pacing in the mid-70's was very different to the pacing of later films. For me, the leisurely (by today's standards) pacing of ANH contributes to its distinctive quality of spaciousness and a lack of clutter.

4. The mystery of it all certainly does work well and in my opinion, many of the things later included to solve some of these mysteries were not improvements.

So for me, ANH is the greatest of the OT, the greatest of the saga.

Just the greatest!

 

I totally agree with this. I think that's why I don't complain much about GL making his special additions, and even the BlueRay changes. The movies look really good, even today. I mean, ROTS was made in 2005, and it still looks just as fresh today. ANH, ESB, ROTJ, and all the prequels look really good and they hold up well.

 

ANH is my least favorite of the OT, and possibly least favorite of the saga as well, probably 5th at best. The main reason which was one of yours is that it doesn't feel as much as a part of the overall "saga" as the other 5 films. Obviously that was due to circumstances at the time as it was likely to be a standalone film, and because of that it's easily the best stand alone of all 6. But not now as a part of a greater saga it just feels like it's missing something.

And to a lesser extent, again not it's fault, the visual and sounds are the lowest of all 6 obviously.

 

I think the 1977 Star Wars film being a stand-alone movie is in its favor.

I've never understood why Luke being whiny on Tatooine is a problem. He's a teenager who's never been off the farm. He's supposed to be whiny. Now if he were whiny later on, then that would be a problem.

I love the pacing of the original flick.

I like the hints of the original movie better than the filled-in-blanks of the other movies.

 

This is an excellent point that I have long felt is one of the absolute best aspects of ROTS. Despite the number of decades that separate both ANH and ROTS, and despite the difference in technology that make up the two films, the way ROTS ends and the way ANH begins were so well fit together that it makes me smile just thinking about it. I don't agree with everything GL did with the PT, but this is nearly perfect to me.

 

You're making a mess...

I don't even know what we're doing here! We're wasting our time...

You ask the impossible...

 

MOC Yak Face wrote, "...although Luke is on the whiny side, he is not in the same league of annoyance as Anakin, due to other differences in their personalities."
Good point. By ROTJ Luke is completely cool. Anakin comes off as whiny to me right to the end. Even as Darth Vader.

I would say Jedi is the weakest although I love it dearly.

 

Like Empire Strikes Back, I think having the rest of the Saga being an iconic part of pop culture kind of hurts the revelations and twists that really shocked the viewer. As a kid, it seemed everyone knew that Luke became a Jedi and Obi-Wan was one of the greatest Jedi who ever lived. Watching the movie, who would have known that a kid from a desert planet would be destined to save the galaxy, or that a crazy old hermit mastered powers we couldn't begin to comprehend? I think we take a lot of this for granted, not to mention the effects were even further refined by the two later installments.

Basically, I can see why people might think it's the weakest, but as I grew up, I kind of grew more fond of the idea that someone like Luke Skywalker could rise up from nothing to become a hero.

 

I personally love ANH (I'm 34 and grew up with it on VHS). However, I tried screening it for my almost-3 year old son and he was insanely bored throughout all of the Tatooine scenes. For modern-era kids, it's probably the weakest of the 3 OT films.

 

ANH is great. So many great lines have been quoted from that movie a million times. Alec Guinness delivers one of the best performances in the saga,and it does flow with the rest from a certain point of view which is Lukes. The OT is Lukes journey it's about him slowly finding out all the truth from the PT so of course when his journey starts it doesn't seem to tie in because we're watching from Lukes perspective. If it was OWK then that would be different

 

I do not, for me it goes ROTJ-ANH-ESB (as far as the OT goes).

 

Because it's a discussion forum.

 

I disagree, in many ways the fact that it can stand-alone is a positive in my opinion.
The only negatives for me are a bit too much Threepio and R2-D2 for my taste.

 

Things can get a little lengthy in it (like Threepio and R2's march through the desert, being found, sold, etc.). But, it was so revolutionary for its time. And what began it all. So, I will always have a special place in my heart for the original. And you CANNOT beat the Death Star climax in that movie (the trench run).

BTW, Luke has never achieved the whiny level of Anankin lol.