Does Dooku's turn to the Dark Side lessen the impact of Anakin's?

Lucas used two of his characters in the last two Prequels to foreshadow Anakin becoming Darth Vader, at least for those who watch the films in the order of Episode 1-6. The character of Dooku shows the audience that a Jedi can turn to the Dark Side and the character of Grievous shows a half-being half-machine creation is possible. Let me state that I watched them 4-6 then 1-3, but I want examine the impact of the turn(s) as if I had never seen the OT.

I think that Dooku's turn does lessen the impact of Anakin's. Without knowledge of the OT, I would have been shocked in ROTS to see Anakin turn to the Dark Side. The precedence of Dooku's turn means that of the 6 major Jedi we meet (Ani, Obi, Yoda, Jinn, Mace, Dooku)two turn to the Dark Side. I understand that there are other Jedi, but those 6 get the most attention.

If I were watching ROTS without knowledge of the OT (and didn't know of Dooku's turn), Anakin's questioning of the Jedi's teachings wouldn't necessarily lead me to believe he could turn. Perhaps leave the Jedi Order to be with Padme, but not betray the Jedi nor his Master. Even with his special relationship with Palpy, Anakin would have helped Mace defeat the Sith Lord in his office, an audience member might have thought. Seeing Anakin caught off Mace's hand would have shocked me immensely, even though I knew he was doing it, in his mind, to save Padme.

But Dooku turning from Jedi to Dark Lord lessened the impact. Although the reveal at the end of AOTC was meant to reverse mirror the reveal at the end of ESB (AOTC-Jedi into Sith, ESB-Sith from former Jedi)it still reduce's Anakin's turn.

Another Jedi has turned? Been there, seen that.

 

I don't think that Dooku's turn to the darkside lessened Anikan's turn because they turned for different ressons. Dooku turned for a couple reasons, the big one being Qui-Gon's death and Anikan's reason was out of love for Padme. Grievous being a cyborg may have lessoned Anikan's cyhborg body as Darth Vader to the veiwer that watches I-III then IV-VI but Grievous (In the movies) dosnt play a big enough role to effect Anikan's cyborg body from lessening the effect on the viewerfrom seeing Anikan in the suit.

 

I don't think it lessens the impact, either. Dooku is a very important character in the sense that he is Anakin's predecessor to the dark side. I think Sidious always wanted Anakin as his apprentice, ever since Anakin was a child and Sidious, a senator before Dooku's fall. I believe Sidious saw Dooku as nothing more than a test for Anakin's power and perhaps, if the unlikely did happen and Anakin was killed, Sidious' possible successor. Dooku was nothing more than a pawn to Sidious as was Vader, it's the Sith way of teaching the master kills the apprentice or vice-versa it's a mutually manipulative relationship and that's why I think Dooku also serves as foreshadowing to Vader (Greivous serves as foreshadowing as well) so there stories have to follow some sort of similar path.

But that's just my interpretation.

 

Dooku's turn doesn't affect me. I know why he was put in the film, and it makes sense.

I would imagine, though, that some weight to his turn might have been added had we known what he was like prior, or given some more information on how he was turned. Seeing as how Qui-gon is generally liked by a majority of SW fans, the fact that Dooku trained him (and that Dooku was trained by Yoda) would lead one to believe that he was probably a decent guy by association, thus providing the necessary mental image of what he was like to contrast with what he is now.

And to be honest, he doesn't seem all that evil anyways. I mean, actions are one thing, but mannerisms are another....but I digress.

 

Oh yes, Dooku was quite the gentleman. He wasn't trying to start a civil war that would result in the suffering and deaths of beings throughout the galaxy, that would result in the Jedi Order being stretched to the very limits, enabling Darth Sidious to enact his Order 66 more efficentally and soon lead to the rise of the Galatic Empire that would last for 23 years.

Oh no, he would never do that. XD

 

Which is why I said actions are one thing (the list you mentioned), and mannerism are another (the way he goes about talking about these things.)

 

I'd say Dooku's turn really wasn't very much like Anakin's. Dooku's turn was a purely pragmatic decision born out of disgust at the ineptness of the Senate and the Republic in general; Anakin's turn was because of purely personal fears.

Or rather- Dooku turned; Anakin fell.

 

Good distinction.

 

DarthBoba,

Both Anakin and Dooku turned (or fell) to the Darkside for the same reason-they wanted to save something (Anakin-PadmeDooku-Republic) and were prevented to do so by their Jedi teachings and rules, at least in their minds. Neither one had evil intentions at the beginning, they just thought they could "use" the darkside until their goals were accomplished. We all know how going down the dark path dominates one's destiny.

Also, my original intention of the thread was to discuss if having another Jedi turn before Anakin did would lessen the impact for the audience, not why Dooku turned or if Dooku was necessary or if Maul should have lived.

 

And yet DarthBoba's point stands, and stands well. I too like the distinction between Dooku's turn and Anakin's fall.

 

Fixed. And, agreed.

 

Meh, the Republic's the agency that forgot basic facts of governmental life like a counter-intelligence agency and that a standing military makes you pretty immune to abruptly being occupied by clones.

 

I too think the Dooku's turn to the Darkside was more for the fact that he lost faith in the Jedi Order and the Republic just as Qui-Gon did but not as openly. I'm sure Dooku's influence caused Qui-Gon to sort of be on the fence about the whole situation building between the Republic and the Jedi and the rise of the Sith. Dooku was probably set up by Sidious to be in a position where he thought he could change things by becoming a Sith for the better good of the galaxy. He probably fed the same line to Dooku as he did to Anakin about the Jedi and the Senate being complacent. When he was talking to Obi-Wan in AOTC when he captured him, Dooku seemed sincere about Ob-Wan joining him to help him overthrow the senate and the Republic where the Jedi were just puppets.

Anakin, on the other hand, desired power for personal gains and Sidious knew that. He knew that Anakin would, like DarthBoba said, fall, because he could not control his emotions. All Sidious had to do was to push Anakin in the right directions and he would fall to the Darkside far easier than Dooku who had to be convinced that to turn would be advantageous to himself, and the galaxy.

 

The whole notion that Dooku turned to the Sith because he lost his faith in the Jedi Order and the Republic makes it seem like a noble action but the opposite is true. If Dooku was truly concerned about the people, as implied in his statements to Obi-Wan about the Jedi and the Republic in AOTC, would turning to the Sith be the best way to change the GFFA?

Dooku knew the history of the Sith and their destructive bent. Not the best way to ensure peace and justice in the galaxy.

 

His idea of "taking care of people" is "I know what's right and nobody else does."

And the Sith could always blame their destructive tendencies on the rest of the galaxy just not being ready to admit that.

 

I think if you didn't have Dooku's turn and Anakin turned out of the blue it would have made his reasons for doing so much less plausible (Coz let's face it, that part of the story isn't really concrete is it? SOmeone who was protecting the Republic and was part of the Jedi ORder all of a sudden has no problem killing everyone?)

It's hard to say though BECAUSE I saw the OT first AND read EU before watching ROTS so Jedi turning to the Dark-side is almost normal.

 

That's exactly my point. The turning of a Jedi to the dark side should be treated as a monumental thing, not an everyday occurrence. Imagine the shock on the faces of Yoda and Obi-Wan after discovering Anakin turned, if they hadn't already known of a Jedi who had turned a decade earlier?

Also, don't confuse the way Lucas wrote and filmed the reason for Anakin's turn with whether Anakin (or any Jedi) could have turned. There are other storylines that could have been written to show why Anakin turned.

 

i dont think theres an issue. i think it actually makes anakin's turn somewhat easier to swallow. crucially, we dont see dooku's turn or the cause of it, and second to that, within the on-screen story dooku is never seen as anything other than the bad guy. or at least, he is never our hero in the same way Anakin is. so the weight of Anakin's turn remains equally tragic and unexpected for the audience, while even more plausible than it would have been, given that we know it can happen and has happened.

there's nothing to suggest that dooku, even before he turned to the dark side should have been considered a hero to us, or that his being a sith might be all that shocking, simply by his former association to the jedi alone. he probably would have been just as unlikeable as a jedi and is in no way a similar character to anakin.