Saga Does Palpatine want revenge? If so, why?

Does Palpatine just want power or does he also want revenge on the Jedi like Maul? If he does want revenge, why does he care about something that happened 1000 years ago?

 

Well, the film is called Revenge of the Sith, and Palpaitne's a Sith.

So I assume he wants some of that juicy revenge.

 

I've always been pretty skeptical about Palpatine (or any of the former Sith Masters) actually wanting 'revenge'. The Sith just want their power over the galaxy back.

I suspect that Sith apprentices were probably fed a heap of cultish hogwash early on to suck them in and keep them under control, hence why Maul still seemed to believe it - once they became masters, they would have been smart enough to realise that the Sith Order's objective was simply to wipe out the Jedi for the purpose of taking control, not because of some ancient blood feud or the besmirching of their (non-existent) honour.

Even the Sith Order itself was merely a means to an end (ultimate power), I don't believe they bowed down before any higher power or subscribed to dogma out of any sort of respect. As I mentioned in another thread, it almost seemed like Palps and Vader were happy to throw all Sith beliefs out the window (the Rule of Two being the main one), now that they'd served their purpose.

 

what? the jedi destroyed the sith/forced them into hiding for a 1,000 years. i think they want revenge. it's also said out loud and has a movie named after it.

 

Yes, he also wants revenge. The Jedi brought them virtually to extinction.

 

Of course (being a Sith), I think vengeance drove Palpatine against his order's most significant enemies, but I actually don't think vengeance was his greatest motivation. Power was always the #1 priority for him. He became obsessed with taking the already prodigious power he was born with and trying to amplify it to unholy new heights. It wasn't enough to become Supreme Chancellor; he had to be Emperor. It wasn't enough to simply destroy the Jedi; he had to destroy the Jedi WHILE simultaneously poisoning their Chosen One. It wasn't enough for him to rule an Empire with nearly unstoppable military might; he had to also blow up planets. Power was always at the heart of Palpatine's machinations, while the revenge of the Sith was always just a bonus to be obtained along the way.

 

I'm pretty sure the revenge is metaphorical. Unless you think Sidious wants revenge for Darth Maul's death, but I don't think he cares.

The Sith were basically extinct and forced to live hiding in the shadows for over a thousand years to avoid the Jedi. The revenge is just Sidious wanting to turn the tables and put the Jedi in that position with the Sith on top. It's not revenge in the literal sense, because Sidious/Palpatine wasn't around 2000 years ago when the Jedi brought the sith to 'extinction'.

 

Without the EU the title ROTS is now a little muddy.

 

I kinda see what you mean, but from a certain point of view it simplified things. All we know about the sith from the movies is "there are always two" and "the sith have been extinct for nearly 2000 years"

So(because clearly they were not really extinct) we can basically gather they have been hiding from the Jedi and working in the shadows for roughly 2000 years. I'm pretty sure the 'revenge' of the Sith basically amounts to taking down the Jedi so they don't have to hide anymore, and bringing THEM to 'extinction'

 

Well, Palpatine was indoctrinated as a Sith and as a result, shares the same distaste and hatred of the Jedi that his Master and his predecessors have for the Jedi. So he wants revenge for his predecessors, but also like all Sith, he wants power for the sake of power.

 

Was it not a 1000 years?

 

''I have waited a long time for this moment, my little green friend.... At last, the Jedi are no more.''

 

You could be right. I don't remember the quote word for word. But even if it was 1000 years, I still don't think Palpatine was around to see it in person back then. I know he has a strangely long life thanks to the force but I don't think we are supposed to assume Palpatine has been brooding around for 1000 years.

 

Well, that's the thing. Lucas himself seemed to be vague as to whether or not Darth Bane was really Darth Sidious, or if Palpatine was separate from him. I think Lucas might have had that in mind for a brief period, but then opted to make Bane separate.

 

EU aside, where was it ever suggested that Bane = Sidious or that Lucas considered that?

 

I think Palps wanted Revenge on the Jedi for eliminating the Sith and generally making it difficult for him to practice his "religion" (I.E. conquest). But people take the term "revenge" to be someone's personal animosity towards another for a personal affront. For example, I don't think he had any personal animosity against Yoda. But he was an obstacle that needed to be defeated for his ideology to prevail.

 

I don't have anything solid. Just mere speculation. But Palpatine's true face was considered his real face and that at one point, he was supposed to be both old and ravaged by the dark side. And mostly because there is no reference to Bane in the films, as well as how the Jedi would know about the rule of two. And it would contrast with Yoda who is almost nine hundred years old. I think that it might have been a brief idea that Lucas abandoned in favor of someone else surviving and passing on his knowledge, to serve as a reflection of what Yoda wants Luke to do.

 

It's also about his philosophical ideas as well, as a Sith, he should care his predecessors, because without them, he couldn't take lessons from the Sith lords before himself, it is like a tradition, in this case, of course he would be the one to take revenge from the Jedi order, in the name of his former masters and for his religion.

 

It's ok to Godwin Palpatine because that's exactly what GL intended when he created Palpatine and Palpatine really is a genocidal dictator.

 

He's beyond nasty.

 

Yes, but the Sith getting its revenge refers more to the group as a concept, rather than the individuals - much as "the Return of the Jedi" refers to the return of the Jedi as a force for good to the galaxy, rather Luke or Anakin themselves.

After a couple of generations, there wasn't really anything personal for the Sith Lords themselves to avenge - its near-extinction occurred 1000 years earlier, and the order wasn't based on race or family, just converts passing on their knowledge and skills.
No one forced Palpatine, Maul, Dooku or their predecessors (apart from Bane and, presumably, his first apprentice) into hiding, they voluntarily joined an underground cult that was already in hiding.
(And no, I don't believe Palps was around 1000 years before, or that GL ever considered it)

 

I don't think there was ever an implication that Bane and Sidious were ever one and the same. Bane, per Lucas, was the Sith that survived and reformed the Order. Sidious, in TPM novel (which, for those who don't know, recounts the Sith history according to Lucas), was reflecting on the Sith's origins and history. It's made clear that he's thinking of Bane as an historical person, not as himself.

That's one interpretation.

 

Here's Sidious's thoughts on Bane in the TPM novel:

"In the end, the Sith destroyed themselves. They destroyed their leader first, then each other. What few survived the initial bloodbath were quickly dispatched by watchful Jedi. In a matter of only weeks, all of them died.

All but one.

It was patience that had saved the Sith order in the end. It was patience that would give them their victory now over the Jedi.

The Sith who had survived when all of his fellows had died had understood that. He had adopted patience as a virtue when the others had forsaken it. He had adopted cunning, stealth, and subterfuge as the foundation of his way- old Jedi virtues the others had disdained. He stood aside while the Sith tore at each other like kriks and were destroyed. When the carnage was complete, he went into hiding, biding his time, waiting for his chance.

When it was believed all of the Sith were destroyed, he emerged from his concealment. At first he worked alone, but he was growing old and he was the last of his kind. Eventually, he went out in search of an apprentice. Finding one, he trained him to be a Master in his turn, then to find his own apprentice, and so to carry on their work. But there would only be two at any one time. There would be no repetition of the mistakes of the old order, no struggle between Siths warring for power within the cult. Their common enemy was the Jedi, not each other. It was for their war with the Jedi they must save themselves.

The Sith who reinvented the order called himself Darth Bane."

And here's what Lucas said about Bane in an interview:

"One of the themes throughout the films is that the Sith lords, when they started out thousands of years ago, embraced the dark side. They were greedy and self centered and they all wanted to take over, so they killed each other. Eventually there was only one left and that one took on an apprentice. And for thousands of years, the master would teach the apprentice, the master would die, the apprentice would then teach another apprentice, become the master, and so on. But there could never be more than two of them, because if there were, they would try to get rid of the leader, which is exactly what Vader was trying to do, and that's exactly what the Emperor was trying to do."