Does Technology regress after the Republic's fall?

This post comes from an interesting conversation i had with a friend of mine whilst watching ANH. I made the point of saying how i didn't think it looked very consistent how much more primitive the computer graphics are in the CT (ie. with the X-wing targeting screen) compared with the PT seeing as how technology has progressed 40 years.

We all know this is largely because computer graphics were a lot more limited than they are today. But surely this could've been rectified in the Special Editions?

My friend answered with an interesting claim that he felt it could be to show that Technology actually went backwards after the fall of the Republic, to everyone but the Empire. By diverting all availiable resources into their own projects it explains why the Imperials were able to make marvels such as the death star and AT-AT. This would re-inforce the greedy, militaristic nature of the empire and explain how the Rebel alliance had to make do with obsolete technology, that it had to modify and upgrade.

What interested me with my friend's argument is that this principle has happened in real life. After the fall of the Roman Empire, the outbreak of wars and civil disorder that followed meant that much of the advanced techniques of the Roman society were detroyed and lost. Therefore technology regressed for decades before progress resumed.

 

I don't know about the differences in computer displays, which I agree are way more spectacular in the prequels.

One thing I do know about that issue is the deal with why the ships look so much sleeker and elegant in the prequels. The Incredible Cross Sections TPM guide says that those ships were from a time when craftsmen still ruled the world of design. Art is put into the ships, and we see individuality and elegant curves in the prequel spacecraft. The Trade Federation with its utilitarian cargo vessels converted into armed war freighters and its greedy practices threaten to wipe out the individual craftsman in the heartless pursuit of profit. IV, V, VI show the harsh lines and mechanical looks of factory produced constructions. (that was mostly quoted from the book's introduction)

So perhaps the ships of the Empire and Rebellion don't look as fancy, but they may be more efficient now that they all come off assembly lines.

 

I think it's a combination of both arguments. When times get ruff, there is no place for real crafty works, things become very primal under these surcumstances.
A few years ago I worked in a factory. They used computers from the 60s. When I saw that I inmeddiately made the comparission with Starwars.

 

This post comes from an interesting conversation i had with a friend of mine whilst watching ANH. I made the point of saying how i didn't think it looked very consistent how much more primitive the computer graphics are in the CT (ie. with the X-wing targeting screen) compared with the PT seeing as how technology has progressed 40 years.

Or maybe it has to do with the fact that the movies were made approx 30 yrs apart?

 

This is my first post here in a long time, a long time.

Anyway ...

I think another reason could be that in a 'war-time' environment, such as the galaxy far, far away was experiencing for 20 odd years, you see things made for function, not form.

Take (from the real world) the Jeep in WWII. In the 30's and 40's automobile design was pretty well advanced and downright elegant, yet the Jeep is all hard lined and ugly. It was, however, VERY functional.

Now think of the Naboo fighter. Sleek, elegant, and sexy right? It also wasn't really much of a fighter. It was more for design and show. A more elegant ship, for a more elegant time? Now take the X-Wing. Boxish, square, and a bad-ass fighter capable of light speed! Built for reliability and mass produced.

This could explain the 'downgrade' of technology. Perhaps in the gffa the less advanced screens in the cockpits are like an option of power windows and automatic transmission in a modern car. Cheaper if you get the hand roller windows and a stick shift.

I love this debate ...

 

I HATE THIS DEBATE. I HATE IT WITH THE PASSION OF A THOUSAND CHRISTS. HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE IT. HATE IT.

This "debate" has done nothing but bring out the very worst and most ignorant side of even the most respectable of people. The most recent and glaring example of this happens to be Anthony Daniels' recent comment about how Lucas' obsession with special effects have "over-balanced" the films. Daniels was and still is among my most respected cast members of the Star Wars saga, but I am simply shocked that him, out of ALL PEOPLE, actually MISSED the overall point.

Sigh... allow me to explain quickly before the monster within me explodes:

During the prequels(Or a good part of it anyway), the galaxy is colorful and sleek because there is no dictatorship or any empire to suck the independence out of it.

By the time AHN rolls by, the Empire has long been the singular entity in control of the entire galaxy, and--straight from the mouth of the Flanneled One in one of the final Episode II webdocs released--every color representing them is either black, grey or white.

When ROTJ ends, the color and independence of the galaxy is restored.

THERE'S YOUR EXPLANATION. I honestly felt it didn't need to be explained, up until Anthony Daniels made that certain little comment...

 

Daniels disagreeing with a part of the production of the film makes him ignorant? Wow.

 

Before you get up on your soap box again, perhaps you should actually read. There's far more to it than colors and prettiness.

For instance, the very first example mentioned was that the PT had better targetting computers. How does this fit with your theory? After emerging from a major war, and going into a subsequent Civil War, technology with military applications sees a decline as opposed to it's peace time state? Despite being entirely illogical, that's exactly what we see happening here.

 

Not only that, but the technology regression theory holds no water as Darth Vader's TIE Fighter had cruder displays than his pod racer, which was made entirely of junk. So the Empire, with all its great resources, cannot give the Emperor's right hand, the Great Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, a better computer? No matter how badly technology may regress, I doubt it'll ever get to the point of junk salvage.

 

The tech does not regress.

GL just has new tech to work with, so he can create designs he would have done then...

So, now you have a massive time gap in FX tech, and it will be explained away in some documentary within the EPIII bonus features DVD.

 

"In Universe" I really have no problem with the fact that the tech looks lamer as the years go by in the GFFA.

Look at an ancient suit of Samurai armor and then compare it to a present-day policeman's bullet-proof jacket.

Look at a Mercedes Benz from the 30's and compare it to a Toyota Corolla from today.

Lot's of things were more elegant and aesthetically pleasing/designed with care and flair in Earth's past.Then comes mass-production and the desire to cut corners by using cheaper materials,etc. so we end up with a lot of ugly,utilitarian stuff.

Like,compare all those old tables with the carved Lion's paws at the ends of the legs to a current table-leg.

It's one of the few PT-things with which I don't have a problem.
Tech didn't regress.It's just that art became less of a priority.

 

Two things:

1. Everyone knows that this really because of the order Lucas made the Saga in, and the advances in effects between those two times. We're looking at an in-universe explanation.

2. This isn't just a discussion of aesthetics. Several points have been made about computers, which qualify as actual technology. And yes, the amount of information they display is important.

That said, I think the Galaxy did kind of slip into a Dark Age after the fall of the Republic. That implies that either A) Palpatine's takeover doesn't go nearly as smoothly as we have been led to believe or B) despite being a masterful politician, Palpatine is an idiotic administrator, and manages to mismanage things so badly that the whole Galaxy is plunged into a Dark Age after only a few decades of his rule.

 

Yeah! Palpatine's a super-idiotic administrator.

The tip-off is the way he destroyed the Jedi order!

 

LOL,every time I bring up the fact that The Emporer was brilliant and strong enough to DESTROY the Jedi order....it ALWAYS shuts 'em down.

Yep,you read it here first.Sidious RULES.Too bad your ass got SACKED!!!!!



Who wants a body-massage?

 

Porkchop sandwiches!

 

Kaufman, I'm not sure what you're trying to imply. . .

The ability to destroy an organization with 10,000 odd members is not indicative of administrative skill. Especially, when you have an army of several million soldiers at yoru disposal, and the resources of an entire Galaxy with which to fund them, and your opposition is an religious order that was already crumbling in any case, is partially stripped off it's powers, and are trained primarily for man-to-man combat, not large engagements. Alternatively, if we consider the Jedi as being destroyed through his political machinations, then that goes back to the original argument: being a good politician does not necessarily make you a good administrator.

Fundamentally, the ability to administer/rule/lead is an ability unto itself. That's why there have been great military leaders that have made poor leaders, and conversely great leaders who've made poor military strategists. Or again, I'd point out to you the fact that the smartest people are rarely ever the ones to rule. Instead, they are usually advisors to the ruler. Also, consider the fact that the CEO of Ford Motor Company probably isn't any good at making or designing cars. How is this possible? Because as a leader, his job isn't about actually making the car. It's about managing the company so that it can make the best cars with optimal efficiency, and maximize profits, etc.

So, to conclude, the only evidence we can use for Palpatine's ability as a leader are the times in which he's actually led. There are two periods of note: his time as Chancellor from TPM to AOTC, and hsi time as Emperor from ANH to ROTJ. We can count both, although it might be argued that the former period is invalid, since it was during a time Palpatine was plotting with Dooku to purposely destabilize the Galaxy. However, how do you explain his failure as Emperor? What would be the purpose in destabilizing a government he was firmly in control of?

 

1. There was no technology regression. There's little point debating this since it's fairly obvious that computers in the 1970s are pathetic compared to the present.

2. Name several things the Republic did not have but the Empire and Rebel Alliance had. To name a few: hyperspace capable starfighters, heavy turbolasers as a norm in capital ships versus quad turbolasers, larger and more well-armed walkers, starships the size of the Imperial class being the norm... The list goes on.

3. Athony Daniels is quite right about the direction George Lucas is taking with regard to the Star Wars trilogy. The storylines and scripts for the prequels are really far worse than ROTJ and ESB. Little wonder many consider either movie the greatest.

 

"The storylines and scripts for the prequels are really far worse than ROTJ and ESB."



That's a matter of opinion, and has nothing to do with what we are talking about.


I guess the argument will be rectified when you see Tantive IV and the Star Destroyer bridge in Ep3 looking the same as they did in the OT, with the buttons and blinky lights.

 

"Does Technology regress after the Republic's fall?"

Yes dramaticlly. It not without reason that once the Empire took over they had all the advance technology and evrbody else in the universe was left with tablescrap.

I think that it another way for the Empire to maintain control through tyranny and REPRESSION.

 

the crumby console effects and things are there because of budget and technology limitations in 1977-1983. They are still here do to time issues and other projects on ILM's doorstep.

I can back up this claim by simply pointing out that the technology shown by the consoles of the Empire's ships and stations are just as outdated (if not more so) than the rebels'. The only real difference is that the Rebels have to just throw their bases together, whereas the Empire can properly establish their facilities. Also in terms of vehicles, the Rebel fleet is a medly of salvaged ships from varies worlds whereas the Imperial Fleet is standardised and polished.

Lucas has only changed the most fundamentally important issues concerning the story framework this time around. The picture overall is brillent to see and in nearly all of the non-special effect based sequences appear to have been shot yesterday. That alone is a huge accomplishment.

I think if Lucas opts to do further changes to the films, (crosses fingers) it will be a complete overall revisit to post-production from the base elements. This would only be after ROTS is finnished and the technology for film editing is cheaper.

Based on the sequences shot in the prequel trilogy, he obviously wants ships to fly with more fluidity and grace than the original shots used in ANH.

Besides with as many flaws left in the films like Vader's ridiculous non-JEJ dub in TESB to the lackluster taun tauns, I'm led to believe that a revision is planned for the future.

There are even some elements of the prequels that are already outdated. I won't be concerned with the effects shots until 2007. By then we'll know pretty much what the future of the Star Wars Series will be.

It would be a shame if the technology developed to enhance film over the last 30 years wasn't fully rendered to the films that were the inspiration for that advancement in the first place.

 

like Vader's ridiculous non-JEJ dub in TESB

Actually, that is JEJ, only it's a line that was recorded for ANH but never used, which is why it doesn't sound like TESB-Vader.

It is true indeed that in the days of the Empire, cosmetic design was bottom priority, even for computer programs. The computers that they used were very efficient, they just didn't have the flashy look of the computers from the Republic era. People didn't believe it necessary to spend a lot of time designing good-looking interfaces and stuff, because it was all meant for war, anyway. Why bother?

 

In many ways this technology issue has an ironic homage to the early Klingons from the 60's Trek compared to modern sci-fi.

In the real world its limitations of technology, time and money.

In these 'mini universes' we seek an explination to save face and thereby justify it.

I too had the belief that technology stagnated during the Imperial rule. And I too suspected that Palpatine did it delibretly.

Consider; We have all these unions, guilds and organizations that are free, or recently detached from the Republic. They have ships, fleets, droids and technology such as advanced mobility in droids, (aka droidekas, or transformer/walker ships)

Those alone in numbers would have been a threat to the Empire, and an asset to the Rebellion.

And you all noticed that technology only really advanced when the Empire wanted to expand, or systems joined with the Alliance.

Seperate the technology from the dreamer and the nightmare is maintained...