" Don't make me kill You "

?He?s like my brother, I cannot do it? Obi-Wan to Yoda ? Re: Obi-Wan
?We can only hope he's remained Loyal to the Republic? Anakin, Re: Obi-Wan

?Don?t make me kill you.? Anakin to Obi-Wan
"I will do what I must.? Obi-Wan to Anakin

What is noticeable about these quotes is that they express the inevitability of the conflict between Obi-Wan and Anakin, but the neither of them wants it to come to this. Neither of them really wants to kill each other. They both seem to want to get out of the Ultimate Betrayal/Failure. For Anakin, it is betraying and destroying the Jedi; yet, worst of all, he has to murder his own master and essentially his brother, Obi-Wan. We?ve always known that Obi-Wan doesn?t want to kill Anakin, but something that seems overlooked is that Anakin DOESN?T really want to kill Obi-Wan if he can avoid it.

For Obi-Wan has to face the ultimate failure: His own student has destroyed the Jedi, and Obi-Wan feels guiltly, thus he must destroy his monster.

During the scene with Padme, I always thought when Anakin sees Obi that he'd just go for him, but he keeps talking and pacing. I also think he turned his back on Obi intentionally, to try to make him make the first move, because he didn?t want to. Hence the ?If your not with me "... line. I still think he would have let Obi Wan walk away, but Anakin knew he would not, so he tried to coax him to make the first move. e.g.; lighting his saber, and the ?I will do what I must.

Anakin doesn?t really have any qualms about killing most of the Jedi, but he didn't want to kill Obi-Wan. Many people will bring up the fact that when Sidious says "Every single Jedi, INCLUDING YOUR FRIEND OBI-WAN KENOBI, is now an enemy of the republic" Anakin responds saying "I understand." However, it seems that he is just placating Palpatine when he says that?or does he really mean it? What else can he say to Sidious though? It certainly is an interesting question...

Anakin seemed o.k. letting Obi-Wan go because he didn't really care about exterminating the Jedi per se, it was just a means to an end for him - namely saving Padme. That's why he tells Padme that they can only hope that he's remained loyal to the chancellor. The whole "Don't make me kill you" line makes it seem like he'd let Obi-Wan walk away from the situation. Of course there are limits for both of them as to when this goes out the Window. This is all very ironic of course, since it would have been better for Anakin if Obi-Wan HAD just walked away. Instead, like the great Jedi he is, Obi-Wan does his duty.

 

One wanted ultimate power while the other wanted eternal peace. Their confrontation is unavoidable. Anakin is reluctant to kill Obi-Wan and we know why. Anakin had been Obi-Wan's apprentice, brother, friend, etc. And Anakin had even said once that Obi-Wan was like a father to him. So, what it comes down to is what the other values at this point, and that leads to them trying to dismantle each other.

 

Wait, but why does Anakin say "This is the end for you my master!" in the way that he does?

He seems to relish the idea of killing Obi-Wan. Is he just so consumed by the dark side at this point he doesn't know what he is thinking?

 

Once they fight, it's on. They've already tried to kill each other. Once Obi-Wan sticks with his guns that he'll keep defending the Republic and Anakin declares him his enemy, there's no turning back for either of them.

 

Their confrontation is unavoidable. Anakin is reluctant to kill Obi-Wan and we know why. Anakin had been Obi-Wan's apprentice, brother, friend, etc. And Anakin had even said once that Obi-Wan was like a father to him. So, what it comes down to is what the other values at this point, and that leads to them trying to dismantle each other.

Yep. In some ways, I feel Obi-Wan shouldnt have been in such a hurry to find and confront Anakin. He probably should have given it a little more thought and may have talked Anakin down and back. Anakin of course was in an emotionally vulnerable state on Mustafar and was rethinking what he had done. After a time, he may have seen things in a different light, and fulfilled the phophesy sooner rather than later.

 

Once they fight, it's on. They've already tried to kill each other. Once Obi-Wan sticks with his guns that he'll keep defending the Republic and Anakin declares him his enemy, there's no turning back for either of them.



That's what i'm talking about. Up to that point. up till then I definitely think Neither wanted to instigate it. hence Anakin turning his back to ObiWan. and ObiWan igniting his saber saying " I will do what i must ".

 

There was something on the commentary during the Mustafar crying scene where GL says that once Anakin has a chance to step back and think about things, he realizes that Obi-wan is going to be coming to confront him. So, we know he saw it coming, and it was obviously a source of angst for him; hence the crying.

 

Good topic Duggy; It makes you wonder though, is there anyway that Obi-Wan would have walked away from the conflict? I mean, he obviously doesn't want to kill Anakin, but what other choice did he have? Destroy the Sith, he must.

 

Yeah, he wasn't going to let him go. See the commentary where he goes to talk to Padme. GL points out that Obi-wan may hate to do it, but he will put his duty above personal feelings unlike Anakin. He also points out that him not letting Anakin go made him the good guy.

 

Well, we all know Anakin's a bit of a hotdog.

 

God, that was terrible LLSlave


2000th post under this name. Woohoo! If only it wasn't wasted on that

Haha j\k

 

Oh, LLS, you should be ashamed of yourself! If Obi-Wan caught you doing that he'd be very grumpy.

 

I don't Obi-Wan was in a rush to fight Anakin at all. At this point, Anakin has turned to the Dark Side, slaughtered countless Jedi, force choked Padme & is hell bent on destroying his former master. Why would Obi-Wan need to give any second thoughts? He tried talking Anakin out of it, but obviously that didn't work.

 

Well, he didn't talk to him exactly, he lectured him. He and Padme were pointing out all the atrocities he had committed up until that point, and Anakin was so not ready to hear any of that. By that stage, the dark side had pretty much taken over, he seems to really be unhinged there, though some where deep down, Anakin must have realised he'd gone over the top. After the Jedicide and the Separatist slaughter, he does have that moment where it all starts to sink in, but then Padme arrives and then Obi-Wan throws more fuel on the fire so to speak, and any opportunity to talk Anakin down from that point is well and truly lost. By the time Obi-Wan starts walking down that ramp, Anakin knows Obi-Wan is there to kill him, he tells Pads that very thing, "you brought him here to kill me." Anakin knows Obi-Wan thinks of him as a Sith now, and Jedi policy is to destroy the Sith. To me the "Don't make me kill you" is just a warning to Obi-Wan that he will if he advances, he's given him an out there, and I do wonder, had Obi-Wan attempted to walk away, would Anakin have allowed it. I really don't know.

I do like the taunt he gives Obi-Wan there when they're circling each other like barracudas, "I do not fear the dark side as you do". To Anakin, this is some sort of feat, a triumph over Obi-Wan seemingly (he is competative with him after all), and he thinks even at this late stage, that he has some mastery over the dark side and that he can wield it like a tool, and somehow that makes him more powerful than Obi-Wan. But that's just deluded and naive thinking on Anakin's part. The "Don't make me kill you", implies that Anakin thinks he's the superior fighter, then later once Obi-Wan has taught him a final lesson and chopped his limbs off, the "I hate you" surely covers the pain of that really not being the case, that Obi-Wan has won over him, among other reasons for uttering that line. He was in a world of hurt, mentally, emotionally and physically after all at such a momentous point in the saga.

 

You mean to tell me that the reason of Anakin's tears were for the realization that he may have to fight Obi-wan (his "father"/brother) in a duel to the death? Hmm...Interesting.

 

Good point. Personally I think at that point, Obi-Wan had decided that Anakin had gone over and couldn't come back. Thus the quote "Only a Sith deals in absolutes".

If Anakin could've avoided killing Obi-Wan, he probably would've. But since Obi-Wan had essentially cornered him on Mustafar, he had no choice but to try and kill him.

As for the quote "Don't make me kill you", Anakin was probably making a feeble attempt to make Obi-Wan walk away, but he knew deep down that Obi-Wan was there to stop Anakin permanently.

 

Obi-Wan would have to said something unbelievable to turn Anakin back at this point. He just choked Padme. Before that, he killed everthing in sight. He betrayed the order. How was he going to stop the killing spree. He couldn't control the force. It's really sad if you think about it. Anakin had so much potential, but he thought he could control everything with his power. Man, that's creepy. Think about it; Anakin thought he was all-powerful. He could kill all the Jedi, and then kill his master and even save Padme from death! Lucas has a quote about how during this one moment everthing's o.k., but then he starts thinking about all that he has done, and that's the moment he cries on Mustafar.

I can't find the quote currently. But right before Padme shows up, and he contacts Darth Sidous, he's on some sort of dark side binge. Though he has the moment when he thinks "WHAT AM I DOING?" as Lucas has said.

 

i think the question here is

would obi wan have confronted anakin
if he wasnt ordered to by yoda??

 

"I will not kill Anakin."
"He is like my brother ... I cannot do it."
Finally, an excuse, "I do not know where the Emperor has sent him. I don't know where to look."

 

yea he was trying to avoid it
but yoda insisted

 

Good point. Personally I think at that point, Obi-Wan had decided that Anakin had gone over and couldn't come back. Thus the quote "Only a Sith deals in absolutes".

Which of course is an absolute in itself.

I can see Yoda needing to deal with Palps quickly. But Anakin wasnt going to be doing evil on his own without Palps. Killing the separtist leaders and shutting down the droid army also helped the Jedi situation. IF Obi-Wan had not rushed to confront Anakin and IF Padme had given birth and not died without Palps intervention, I think Palps may have been toast sooner.

 

"Anakin on the balcony contemplating what he?s done. This is the first time he actually has a chance to think about what it is that?s happened by himself and the tear here shows that he knows what he?s done but he?s not committed himself a path that he may not agree with but he is going to go along anyway.

It?s the one moment that says he?s self aware. He rationalizing all his behavior. He?s doing terrible things. But in the end he really knows the truth. He knows that he?s evil now and there?s nothing he can do about it and that?s the moment where the pathos of him being stuck in that suit is real because if he had to do it over he probably wouldn?t do it but he can't stop it now.

You know where it's going to lead. He knows it will end with a fight with Obi Wan. He knows that Padme not buy into this new reality. He made a pact with the devil and now he?s become the devil."

--George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.


"He (Anakin) doesn?t want to do it because it's his duty. It's his destiny. Now he must confront his friend who wants to bring justice, just like him. So they both want to do the same thing. One is doing it out of strength and power and doing things he knows is wrong and the other one (Kenobi) is doing the inevitable things that he has to do but he really doesn?t want to have to do which is get rid of his friend."

--George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.

This the nature of their conversation just before the duel begins. They both know it's going to end in blood and death. They can fool themselves all they want, but they know it's true.

 

good thread

i'm thinking there is absolutely a parallel there, that obi-wan doesn't want to kill anakin and vice versa.
what i find interesting is that they will both say things to each other that are supposed to stop the other but accomplish the opposite.
'don't make me kill you'
'don't try it'
the confrontation on the platform is already very charged with emotions and despite his title 'the negotiator' obi-wan doesn't actually negotiate very much. it seems he's not willing to open the can of worms that would come with questions. he doesn't ask anakin a single question (well, except the rhetorical one of 'your new empire?' which prolly only aggravates the kid further)
i concur anakin thinks he is better than obi-wan, but the duel proves otherwise. the feelings both men have for each other really get in the way which is why palps is right in fearing that confrontation. he knows that anakin isn't ready for it.

 

Whenever Vader says this, he never ever really wants it to go to fruition.

"Don't make me destroy you!"

Darth Vader - Luke Skwalker TESB

"Don't make me kill You!"

Darth Vader - Obi-Wan ROTS

Notice the parallel ?? We know that Vader had no intentions of killing Luke.

 

Don't forget ANH in this - i think that has another interesting tidbit for this

"You should not have come back"

This from a man that hates & loathes Obi-Wan with all of his dark heart and mind, from a man who blames Obi-Wan for all of his pain and misery. From a man who spent his years hunting down every last Jedi. From a man who spent three years hunting Luke down like a dog.

It seems odd to me that he says this to Obi-Wan, as if Vader allowed him to escape. I'm not saying he knew where Obi was and deliberately let him be, just that it's a little off for the Sith Lord Vader.

- O_F