PT Dooku and Obi-Wan in AOTC

OK, if this thread is still open somewhere else then someone please close it, but I did look and it seems like the only ones are from ten and twenty years ago.

What are people's thoughts these days on that scene where Dooku reveals the name of Darth Sidious and then asks Obi to join him and help destroy the Sith?

Is he acting, following orders from Sidious: "Okay, we'll let this leak out now and sort of prime the Jedi for what comes next ..."

Or has he joined forces with Sidious, realized what he's dealing with, understood he's made a terrible mistake, and now he's desperately hoping for a way back? And instead Obi says, "Qui-Gon would never join you! (And therefore neither would I.)"

 

He was probably probing Obi-Wan to see if he was apprentice material.

I don't think it was orders from Sidious at all. Nor do I think he believes he made a serious mistake.

It was simply a testing of the waters, Obi-Wan quickly refuted it, Dooku being smart knew not to push it and saw a true Jedi and decided:

 

Yup. Tyranus, like all Sith apprentices, seeks to eventually betray his master. He also seems to genuinely think that he's going to bring about real change to the Sith and the galaxy. He's a twisted idealist. And that is something Sidious had counted on.

 

Once Dooku joined the Dark Side, there’s no going back.

“Forever will it dominate your destiny.” ~ Yoda


Darth Sidious did plan for that name to come out because as Chancellor, he is part of the Jedi Inner Circle…and if the Jedi found out without his consent then Dooku would have been tortured or worst.

If Dooku really wanted to betray Sidious then he would have told Obi-Wan that Palpatine is Sidious.

He did however wanted to convert Obi-Wan to Sith. And not a way to get back being a Jedi. That’s the Sith way…the apprentice wants his Master’s power while the Master has his apprentice to do his grunt work. To do that, the apprentice has to outwit and out muscle his Master while the Master has to be strong enough to not let that happen. Survival of the fittest to be the sole Dark Lord.

It’s a chess move by Palpatine to see how the Jedi will react.

Since the Intel came from a Sith ….the Jedi has to be on guard and was off balance because should they believe him or is that a ploy by the Sith so the the Jedi can mistrust the Senate and the system itself.

Dooku is definitely planning to betray Sidious BUT not until they take over the galaxy. Unfortunately for Tyranus, Sidious was 10 steps ahead of him and everyone else.

It was also a FLEX by Palpatine….so the Jedi could know the name Darth Sidious.

 

I think they'd already gotten the names Sidious and Maul from the Trade Federation after TPM, actually.

 

Could be.

I don’t think Sidious would still be working with the TF if they ratted his name out like that.

It was Dooku that said the TF came to him for help and that they were betrayed by the Dark Lord.

The TF could have said Maul but the name Sidious I dunno because the Jedi would have been talking about the Sith Master Sidious before Dooku actually revealed the name.

When Yoda and Mace were talking on how blind they were that they couldn’t see the creation of a clone army. And that their ability to use the Force has diminished.

Yoda could have said the name Sidious but instead said only the Dark Lord of the Sith could have known their weakness.

And there were many scenes where the Jedi could have said the name Sidious and his actions.
But never did.

And Dooku said “….called Darth Sidious”

if the Jedi knew that name ….he would have just said “Hundreds of Senators are now under the control of Darth Sidious.”

 

Nah, they'd heard the name. I'm sure of it.

 

Yeah from Obi-Wan through Dooku.

It was just on.

Never once before Dooku that they were saying the name Sidious.

Obi-Wan heard the name Tyranus way before he heard the name Sidious.

And Dooku would not have said ….”CALLED Darth Sidious” if Obi-Wan knew who Sidious was.

Unless it’s another GL not really thinking about details like that.

 

I agree with others. Dooku was genuinely testing the waters with Obi-Wan in case he could get him to join the Sith and eventually betray Sidious. It’s the rule of two in action. But of course, we know Obi-Wan would never join the Sith.

I’ve also been thinking lately that there are more parallels between Obi-Wan and Dooku than are usually discussed. They both were the Jedi most directly affected by Qui-Gon’s death in TPM, but they reacted to it in opposite ways. They also happen to physically resemble one another (once Obi-Wan is old enough), which could be a coincidence or could be a subtle way of reinforcing that Dooku is essentially a dark version of Obi-Wan.

 

The Jedi know that the Sith who attacked Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan is named Darth Maul, especially since Obi-Wan later addresses him by name. He may or may not know the name of Darth Sidious prior to meeting Dooku.

 

When did Obi-Wan later addressed Maul by name??

 

Yeah, I want to know that, too. How the heck could that have even happened???

 

It’s because Obi-Wan never used the name or know the name Maul in TPM and AOTC.

 

https://boards.theforce.net/threads/how-did-the-jedi-know-darth-mauls-name.50027082/

 

EZRA: "Master? Master Kenobi?"

OBI-WAN: "I am. And when you have your strength, I will help you on your way."

EZRA: "On my way? No, I came here to find you. To warn you."

OBI-WAN: "About Maul?"

Ezra: "Yes! You know?"

OBI-WAN: "One doesn't survive as long as I have by being foolish or unprepared. Maul is an old adversary, and a persistent one at that."

EZRA: "We can fight him together."

OBI-WAN: "I had no intention of fighting him, though that seems inevitable now."

EZRA: "You don't understand. You're the answer. The Holocrons told me. They said you would be the one to help us destroy the Sith."

OBI-WAN: "It's the first I've heard of it."

EZRA: "The Rebellion needs you. We need you to defeat the Empire.

OBI-WAN: "What you need, you already have. Unfortunately, you seem to be letting it all go."

EZRA: "But if I had what I needed, why would the Holocrons send me to you?"

OBI-WAN: "They didn't. Maul did. Maul used your desire to do good to deceive you, and in doing so he has altered the course of many things. He knows your fears, your heart, and he manipulated the truth, which has led you here, where you should never have been."

EZRA: "But the Holocrons, they tell the truth."

OBI-WAN: "Do they? The truth is often what we make of it. You heard what you wanted to hear, believed what you wanted to believe. And now, the only one who has gained anything from all of this is...:

MAUL: "Me."

 

I remember when Obi-Wan asked Mace and Yoda if it was true about Sidious controlling the Senate, Yoda said because Dooku joined the dark side he was creating lies and mistrust. However, Mace said how they should keep a closer eye on the Senate, which Yoda agreed.

If Jedi like Yoda thought Dooku was lying which we know he was not, what would be the point of them keeping a closer eye on the Senate? Although that's also easy to say with hindsight being 20/20, since we know what eventually happens.

 

They're conscious of the whole "one of the best ways to lie is to tell partial truths" concept.

That, and they may not entirely trust politicians on principle.

Obi-Wan does tell Anakin of Padme "She's a politician - they're not to be trusted" after all.

 

They were keeping their options open. Dooku has joined the Dark Side so he could be lying but as guardians of the Republic they have to look at all the angles.

Sure Dooku might be misleading them to distrust the Senate but it doesn’t hurt to investigate such a claim.

 

There was also that line from Anakin when he said to Obi-Wan "The Chancellor doesn't appear to be corrupt." which is funny to look back on because that was not true, lol.

I guess on some level they believed Dooku. At least Obi-Wan did because he was the one who mentioned that.