Dooku .... good guy or bad guy ?

I never really did fully understand dooku's stance in episode 2 . he seem's to be on everyone's side . he's a sith ... but yet he asks obi wan to help him destroy the sith ... ? , he's was once in the jedi order , but now he want them all killed ..? , he says he's helping a bunch of star systems reform and rebuild a new stronger goverment , ... but then reveals that the war is just to get sidous more power in the senate . obiously he seems to be having an identity crisis , or .... he's super clever . lets look at the role's he's played ...

1. jedi knight = peacekeepers of the galaxy

2 . sith lord = evil , manipulative , greedy , .. the dark side dictators of the galaxy

3 . leader of the seperatists = leader of a group of star systems that want to leave the republic .

he's either

1.corrupted by or drawn towards the darkside . enslaved by sidious for the sole reason of helping him take control of the galaxy

or ..........

2 . a very smart clever jedi ..... maybe dooku somehow someway found out about sidious and his plans and told the jedi . they didnt believe him so he left the jedi order with hope's of handling it himself . he could have " pretended" to be on the dark side so sidious could take him ( after he lost maul) in and he could learn more about the sith . then he could kill sidious or plan to have him killed , maybe he wanted to be the head sith of the galaxy ?

when you watch the conversation he had with obi wan he seemed to be sincere . it seemed like he was an old frustrated jedi trying his best to get the point across that their really was a sith lord named darth sidious that is planning to take over the republic.

why else would he tell obiwan important details like that . it wasnt helping palpatine's plans when he told obi wan there was a dark lord trying take over the senate , thats like telling your enemy " we plan do this at this time at this place so make sure you remember our top secret plan "


so is it just me or does dooku seem to be playing both ends of bad and good ?

 

Count Dooku is purely a bad guy. There may be traces of good still left in him, but overall he is evil. The reason he told Obi-Wan about Sidious and the Sith is because he was attempting to lure Obi-Wan to the darkside. By Dooku's reasoning, telling Obi-Wan about the Sith would cause Obi-Wan to join Dooku and the Separists. Then Dooku could slowly lure Obi-Wan to the darkside of the force and make him his apprentice, and by doing that he could kill Sidious and become the Sith Master.

The subtle nature of the scene and the dialogue makes it seem like Dooku is a good guy. He isn't.

 

Exactly, think of that scene as the same as the scene in ESB where Vader tries to tempt Luke to join him. Dooku, like Vader tried to do w/ Luke in ESB, is trying to get Obi-Wan to join him to eliminate Sidious and take over the galaxy for themselves, with Dooku as the Sith Master and Obi-Wan his Sith apprentice.

 

this is a redundant thread

 

"this is a redundant thread "

not to me i've never talked about this

 

Ok, Dooku is evil. He's a sith lord so naturally he's evil. He was fooling everyone through out the movie. His full allegience is with Sidious. End of story.

 

Count Dooku a.k.a. Darth Tyrannus, fits into my theory perfectly: that all evil individuals truly see their actions as just and good.

Count Dooku was disillusioned to the point that he actual saw open conflict as the only means of mending a galaxy in shambles and seething with corruption.

He saw Supreme Chancellor Palpatine in the same light as Anakin Skywalker did: a wise man, with the potential to solely run the doddering Republic effectively.

We have to remember that Jedi Master Dooku originally left the Jedi Order because of Qui Gon Jinn's death. It was what ultimately persuaded him on how ineffectual both the Senate and Order was.

He looked at the Jedi was mere pawns in the hands of greedy Republic beauracrats, and that the Order had no longer succeeded in remaining a separate entity.

Darth Sidious offered a glimmer of hope. He made Count Dooku privy to his master plan -- thus gaining his trust.

He's evil, but not in the classic definition of the word. Look at Osama bin Laden, he's despised by the West, yet his people look at him as the next prophet of Islam.

Evil has many manifestations.

<[-]> Saber

 

Yet he spared both Anakin's and ObiWan's lifes, though he could've easily killed both of them:
1.zap Annie 3 sec longer,
2.instead of standing above Kenobi and playing bogart, simply slay him
3.slice Annie into pieces instead of just chopping his arm off.

What a merciful Sith he is...

 

"Yet he spared both Anakin's and ObiWan's lifes"


I think he was playing with them. So he could eventually kill them, but put them through pain before he strikes fully. I think he is evil. There is always a dark person in each episode. 4,5 & 6 is Vader. 1 is Maul. 2 must be Dooku. Who else is there that they saber fight with?

He is evil. He spared their lives to show his power and try and get them to join them.

"Together, we can destroy the sith"

Then why does he want Obi Wan to join? Why doesn't he join to help destroy them?

 

How can we know for sure?

What if Count Dooku, in a warp and twisted way, actual had a scheme to destroy the Sith?

It's possible, he was a former Jedi Master, afterall. Perhaps he looked at joining the Sith as the greatest possible means of infiltrating and rooting out the threat from within.

Obviously there's going to be some type of schism in the upcoming film between Darth Tyrannus & the Separatists, and Darth Sidious & the Clone Armies.

Maybe Count Dooku looks at himself as a crusader, and that this will become apparent in Episode III if he turns on Chancellor Palpatine.

Maybe, he's just a man with good motives who skirted too close to the dark side.

Maybe he was looking for Obi-Wan as a true ally.

A lot of factors speak volumes against this theory of course. Such as the fact he allowed almost a hundred of his former comrades to be massacred when he could've ordered the droids to stand-down.

He also nearly killed Obi-Wan and Anakin by dropping that heavy piece of machinary on top of them, mere seconds before Yoda's timely arrival.

Episode III should clear up all the misconceptions we have.

This thread brings up some revolutionary ideas. . .

<[-]> Saber

 

yeah, Ulic Qel Droma tried to infiltrate the darkside from within, and it doesnt work out well for him

 

I think Dooku may be walking the line between good and evil. It does say that he left the Order because he felt that the Senate had become corrupt. Perhaps he is only using the Dark Side, the Sith to gain power, possible make the universe and things the way he wants them or has thought of them to be.

He seems power-greedy yes, so I'm not denying him to not be evil. He doesn't seem to be totally evil. He does say to Obi-Wan that "...and together, we can defeat the Sith." Or something along those lines.

Yes I know he's evil but not totally. He sounds like he still has some good left in him but the only way he thinks things can change is by force and power not talking and diplomatic ways.

 

"Join me, and we will destroy the Sith..." (Lord Tyranus in Episode II)
"You can destroy the Emperor..." (Lord Vader in Episode V)

There's still some good in Dooku? That may be. There was still some good in Vader. Lucas has designed Dooku to foreshadow Vader in a number of ways; he is not a Sith trained from birth - he is actually a turned Jedi (foreshadowing Anakin's corruption), and he is complex and may have initially had good intentions (foreshadowing Vader's defeat when confronted by his Jedi son). But Dooku won't turn back. If he did, the impact of Vader/Anakin turning back to the light would be fatally diminished.

 

george purposely left this ambiguous, so for now we dont really know.

he may be a disillusioned good man trying to make ends justify means, or he may just be sidious's puppet.

 

I think Dooku will be like Anakin except he won't turn to the Light again.

 

Dooku's one good baddie all right! My favorite new character of the PT!

In any case, I agree that he was left sort of "in limbo." He could swing either way...personally, I feel that he's a bad guy that's just about as close to being good as a bad guy can be...he thinks rationally. Not so stereotypically "bad."

 

He's definitely conflicted.

I think it's 70% bad, 30% good.

-KNick

 

I like the idea that we're left wondering where Dooku stands in the scheme of things. It adds another mystery to be answered when we eventually see Episode 3.

 

Dooku is a bad guy.
He doesn't like the idea of having to kill Jedi, that's why he hesitates with Obi-Wan and then leaves both him, Anakin and Yoda alive. He believes, though, that for the greater good, Jedi must die. He'll rather have the droids do the dirty work, though.

 

I think he "think" himself as a good guy.
Like Ulic, Luke, or even Vos, they all join the dark side in order to destroy it from inside.
but they all fail, as I recall.

 

Luke Skywalker doesn't fail. He comes out highly scathed and tainted, but he suceeds in vanquishing the resurrected Emperor. He acquires the necessary codes to destroy or render unoperational the World Devastators. Sorry about the Expanded Universe inclusion.

<[-]> Saber

 

I don't think there are any traces of good left in Dooku. He tempted Obi-Wan to try and gain an ally and possible apprentice. Sith lords aren't conflicted except about how to gain power.

 

I'm going to have to vote bad guy, good character on this one.

~ Crystal ~

 

Sorry that this isn't entirely relevant. Does anyone know anywhere on the Internet where I can get sounds of Clonetroopers talking? I've looked and looked.
Thanks for any help.

 

He's a good guy gone bad.