Dooku: The most unnecessary character in the PT

While watchiing the PT yesterday I noticed that Dooku really served no pupose inthe PT that other characters couldn't have done. I dont want this turning into another Darth Maul should have lived thread but its going to sound like it at first. I think that all GL had to do in TPM is give Maul a few more lines and he could have used him in the other movies. In my mind there are two reasons Dooku was created

1. Even if Maul had lived people would think he wouldnt be able to handle the task of joining the seperatist together
2. Merchandising

Without Dooku the PT wouild have been much better. It would have gianed the returning villian it so very much needed. The whole mystery in AOTC wouldnt have been there. Which i think is a good thing considering the first couple time I saw it I had no clue what was going on, and it was solved by Padme about 5 minutes into the movie. Anakins turn would have been more suprising to viewers who watch the Saga 1-6. I think that if Dooku could turn and he was a jedi without distractions it would be easier to turn Anakin, a Jedi who has been confused and distracted almost from day one.

We would also get to see Yoda fight Darth Maul in what could have been the most spectactular lightsaber duel ever. Not to mention it would be more powerful for both Anakin and Palpatine if Maul was beheaded instead of Dooku. It would mirror The OT better by having Anakin be put into the position of killing the Trilogies villian, not one who has about five minutes of screen time in two movies. And it would also show how ruthless and power hungry Sidious really is by turning his back on someone hes trained since birth. The opening duel itself would mirror TPM by having Master and Apprentice dueling Maul agian.

Now dont get me wrong I like Dooku, mainly just the way he duels, but his part in incredibly superfluous. He could have easily been replaced with Darth Maul and the story would have gone abouit the same the only thing that would be lost is the whole proposiont to Obi Wan part of the movie which wasnt needed in the first place bacause all it did was reveal to the Jedi the Darth Sidious was in control and confuse the audience about waht side Dooku was on. The Sidious part could have been easily solved by having Obi Wan overhear the conversation with the trade federation leaders and throw in something about Sidious controlling the senate.

The thing I dont like the most about haveing Dookus character it that for someone who has such a big part in the history of Star Wars (Basically starting the clone wars) he has more screen time in the Clone Wars cartoon than the movies.





Freebird accomplishes perfectly what Stairway to Heaven fails miserably at

 

Dooku does seem rather out of place and really not needed in the PT or at all. Sure, it's nice to know that he was Qui-Gon Jinn's master, but a book could have been written about that. It'd be EU, but it'd still count. He's completely unnecessary.

 

Dooku was not unnecessary. You need Maul, Dooku and Grievous to make Vader. DV has characteristics of all 3 characters. Anyways, you need someone you can play both sides ala Lando, didn't whether he could be trusted or not until the climax.

Dooku also shrouds Qui-Gon and fuels Obi-Wan and Anakin to some degree. He was not a waste by any means.

 

Dooku was needed to show the transition from Maul to Vader, and also to show that Jedi can become Sith.

 

Bill Brasky: The most unnecessary thread in the PT



j/k

 

I think the major reason why Dooku is deemed unnecessary is mainly because he's severely underrated. But yes, he does have his place.

 

Ok, I'm not sure I understand the point here. You're saying that you don't like the fact that such an important character in the saga has so little screen time in the last two films of the PT and you would like to replace him with one of the few characters with even less screen time?

If you're trying to convince people that Dooku wasn't necessary, it won't help your case by suggesting to replace him with an even less necessary character. Following your argument logically, it would actually make more sense to replace Maul with Dooku.

 

Actually, Proof, i was trying to show how easliy Dooku could have been replace by Maul. It couldnt have gone the other way around because Maul was here first, and you would drastiacally have to change Dookus back story for his character to work. Besisides maul is muhc cooler, and I can see Sidious training someone for 70 or so years without one of them killing each other.


Freebird accomplishes perfectly what Stairway to Heaven fails miserably at

 

Maul's death was necessary and he could not have just replaced Dooku. Explain how some tatooed silent badass could gain the support of all the separatists. Palpatine...oh yah! Maul...no way. Maul is not a political figure, he's the muscle behind the scenes. Dooku is essentially the exact opposite of maul.

The problem is not that he's unnecessary, it's that he was horribly executed as a character. A better idea would have been to instead replace Dooku with Grievous.

 

besides Christopher lees incredible acting and share presense on screen. Douku was suppose to reperesent a Vader like person, powerful and cunning. Darth Maul is a weapon, and that was his purpose he died simple as that. Im really getting tired of threads like these Mual is dead get over it, and get on with your life. Douku is a Politicl man, who can talk to others and make them join his cause. Hes smart and cunning and his saber skills are amazeing. Maul was an idiot, who was more of a Bodyguard then anything else.

 

"Freebird accomplishes perfectly what Stairway to Heaven fails miserably at"

thats an odd thing to say

thats like praising Steven Hawking while knocking Einstien

 

Grievous is the most unnessicary character, Dooku at least had some depth to him.

 

Hello!

I do not believe that Dooku was unimportant character. I believe that he was very important. One of the main reasons that I feel this way is that Dooku has inside information on the Jedi. The knowledge that he had gave Palpatine the edge against the Jedi. I am sure that he had even more knowledge than Anakin. Dooku was a very good ambassador for Palpatine. He could deal with those that Palpatine was trying to get to join the Separatist movement. He was also loyal and did not like the Jedi just like Palpatine.

I believe that Dooku was a valuable and interesting character. I really liked when Yoda said his name in AOTC.

 

I never understood why people say Maul simply had to be an uncharismatic killer, like there was no other alternative. We can deduce that he was trained and raised by Palpatine, one of the most charismatic politicians in the Galaxy. You don't think manipulation and subtly would be something he'd train to his apprentice? If he were to use the bureaucracy against the Republic and orchestrate a grand scheme, why wait for a Jedi to fall; plan out everything in advance, if we're supposed to believe Palpy had a grand plan, and train the young malliable mind not only in the art of the sword, but the art of the pen. Palpatine could have groomed Maul into not only a deadly warrior, but silver-tongued figurehead capable of rallying systems to his cause; Maul could have very well had a Senate persona, not carrying the Darth title with him into public.

As for his looks? Big deal, you have odd-looking Jedi and an evil-looking leader for Utapau; looks don't mean a thing, it's action. If you write Maul with Dooku's public charisma and his Sith attributes for hidden combat and scheming, you have a much deeper character.

 

Quite the contrary he was very necessay character in the PT.He was the Speratist movements leader and i think that Maul would not handle this.I thin he knew much about doings and gave all what i knew to Palpatine and thats why Palpatine successed so easily (imo).

 

When you get right down to it, none of the caracters were "neccessary", but I am glad Lucas included all of them.

 

Dooku was one of the best characters in the PT (maybe even in the whole saga) and Christopher Lee gave a superb acting performance.

Not only do I think Dooku was a necessary character, I believe he should have been given more screen time, esp. in Ep III

 

but dooku was actually pretty important, i think that he was there to show anakin that even the best jedi could go to the dark side. you have to admit, dooku was pretty good as a jedi

 

When did we ever see Dooku as a Jedi?

 

The Maul fanboys are always hating on Count Dooku! Dooku should have been in Ep 1 and not Maul! How kewl would it have been if early on Qui Gon dropped a sentence in with Yoda about his well respected Master, Count Dooku. Yoda could have said "seen him for awhile we have not." Then when Sidious is talkin smack to Nute Gunray he says "this is my apprentice Darth Tyranus he will find your lost ship" Note: the desert duel is cut out for purposes of building the climax. See the audience knows Qui Gons mater is Count Dooku but we know this Sith lord as Tyranus. Fast forward to the end duel scene, the big doors open and there stands Lord Tyranus, Qui Gon looks perplexed and says "Master Dooku?" Tyranus replies by igniting his RED lightsaber and attacking. This would make for some good dialogue between Christopher Lee and Liam Neeson. But the end stays the same, after an incredible duel Tyranus kills his former Padawan in cold blood as Kenobi watches. Then Tyranus escapes rather than face Obi Wan. This would show the power of the dark side and would be a great lead in to the AOTC duel ie Obi Wan finally gets to face Tyranus but the surprise is Obi Wan gets owned, Yoda shows up etc. Also Anakin loved Qui Gon, would give him more reason to hate Dooku and want to kill him! See Maul was unnecessary and Count Dooku in 3 straight movies would have vastly improved the story.

 

Im not saying that Dooku is unimportant, Im sayong that he could have easily been replaced by any of the other three throw away characters in the PT, therefore unnecessary.


Freebird accomplishes perfectly what Stairway to Heaven fails miserably at, yes I dont like Stariway to Heaven

 

Good Job you almost convinced me and put me on the fence for this topic. I like Dooku, and dont care for Maul much but you make a good point. I would of liked to see the bad guy returning, when I first saw ROTS it was so cool seeing dooku for the first time, but imagine if you got that feeling in AOTC and even feel better in ROTS. So ya you make good points, but whats done is done.

 

Saying that Maul could have easily replaced Dooku is a load of bantha poodoo. Maul and Dooku and two totally different characters, and albeit they're both Palpatine's sith aprentices, there's little compararing the two.

Maul was an excellent fighter, but he apears to have little other strenghs. He can do Palpy's dirty work, but while he's not stupid, he's not exactly brilliant either. Maul is indeed cool, but he has almost zero character depth, and he speaks about one or two lines in the entire film (of course, many people find this appealing, look at Boba Fett). He's a badass, and a big rule about badasses is that they can't get bogged down with alot of political mumbo jumbo.

Dooku serves the role of a politcal idealist gone awry. Dooku is a cunning villian who could serve as a foil for Sherlock Holmes, and in many ways, he's a more old fashioned bad guy than Maul. Dooku, like Sidious, can be quite evil without having to go nuts and slash everyone into bits. Dooku is kind of like an aristocrat, he's a little more honorable and disiplined than Maul, but he's also a bit snotty and demeaning.

I can't imagine Maul doing Dooku's job, and I can't imagine Dooku's doing Maul's, either. They have totally different purposes and they're both just as necesary. If there's any bad guy who was unecesary in the PT it's probably Grevious. Dooku could have easily taken his place as a millitary commander, without the snidely whiplash factor.

 

I think it is much easier to see Maul taking Dookus place the the other way around.
I think that Loco_for_Lucas's post was some of the most brilliant sutff about Maul.
We all know about Dooku, he is a proper gentleman trained in the older arts who is a political figure.

All we know about Maul is that he is a good fighter and we get the assumption that he is nothing but an animal. But now thinking about it I know he could have pulled off leading the speratists. Something from Palps had to rub off on him in like 30 or so years of training he had to pick up something.
The only thing Dooku had over Maul was money, lots of it

 

Thanks, Bill.

Hmmm, you're right, but it's not about one character replacing another, but simply having a visible villain for three consistent movies that acts as Palpatine's right hand. We have no reason to care about what happens to Maul at the end of TPM, he hardly speaks, we don't know him, so when we see him sliced in half, the character's demise is reduced to cheap applause fodder for crowd reaction. Imagine how hollow the OT would have been if Darth Vader, the main visible villain of ANH, were killed at the Battle of Yavin for cheap applause, only to have a new villain introduced not at the beginning of Empire Strikes Back, but at the Executor briefing scene before the bounty hunters? All of a sudden you have this new character running around, giving orders, speaking like we're supposed to be familiar with him, but gives us relatively little screen time to actually care why he's so important. That's what happened here. We don't have a consistent villain to be a consistent threat to the heroes on a more literal level; you have Palpatine on a higher plane controlling everything as a puppet master, but that's lame. That's like saying Hitler was the villain of the Indiana Jones movies; the Nazis fight for his cause, but he's not the dude Indy has to beat to save the day.

The Prequels don't build up on their villains like the OT did with the Jedi Masters. You're constantly starting from scratch, being reintroduced to a new menace every episode, like a villain of the week. These characters are disposable and useless. The work around in killing Obi-wan was brilliant, even though Obi-wan Kenobi was killed in the rising point of ANH, that did not mark the end of his role in the saga as a whole. So by the time we meet Yoda in ESB, it's not necessarily starting over from scratch because Obi-wan is still very much a presence in these films. He is a participating character that has another Jedi Master to fortify what he says. The idea of the Jedi is very progressive, it doesn't stop, go back to the start and try to catch up where it left off before; the characters are used brilliantly in a forward motion that keeps the story itself going forward.

Now, I'm not saying Maul should have come back from the dead unless there were something established in TPM that showed the Sith can communicate from the other side. That being the case, we can't afford to lose Sith characters if they can't continue to be a presence in the films. That said, since death is really the end of the road for evil characters, they have to be taken care of and kept alive for as long as possible so that they can meet a more epic ending like Vader in the OT.

Hence my reasoning behind consolidating the characters of Maul and Dooku; both are interesting characters with so much untapped potential. Anything of credence for these two doesn't come from the films, we only get hints; most of it comes from fan conjecture. That's cool and all, but that's not an achievement of the films, it's of the fans. They are the ones elevating the film's paper-thin characters, whose marginal depth and characterization does them no service, and making them more than what they were in the movies.