EU Clone Wars

Not looking to pick a fight or anything. . .

Well, maybe<g>. . .


I know that, in the past, there have been the purists who claim that SW consists of ONLY the things that are in the movies, right? BTW, are there still people who claim that (probably not on THIS Board<g>).

Anyway. . .

If these Purists still exist, how will they explain the Clone Wars since -- with the exception of the beginning and the end -- the Clone Wars exist ONLY in the EU? (And where does thge Animated Series exist in tta sort of thinking -- is it OFFICIAL or another part of the EU?)

Just an idle question from an idle mind while I REALLY should be doing something else<g>.

Thoughts?

--John

 

It's been awhile since I watched ANH, but I am pretty sure the Clone Wars are mentioned in Leia's message to Obi-Wan, and I think Obi-Wan mentions them again in talking to Luke about his father. (I can't recall the exact lines without putting the video on. They are mentioned in those lines in the novel, however). So the purists should accept the fact that there were Clone Wars but they might argue about the way they unfold as so far the information is all EU-based.
As far as the animated series, comics, games, and upcoming books go, I see this as being similar to the 'Shadows of the Empire' story. There is one story, and different media are telling different parts of it. To get the whole picture you have to read, view, or play everything.

 

I was just thinking about this same thing & wanted to post it in the 3SA, but I figured that I'd get jumped on by the purist police & that none of them would be able to come up with a decent answer anyways.

There are no Dark Jedi, no Clone Wars, yeah right!

 

Ah yes, the infamous "canon" debate.


My take on it, is that what people consider to be the "true" timeline of Star Wars is up to them. The stories are structured in a way that pretty much anyone can personalize it. Star Wars is such a universal entity, that people who have been longtime fans of the brand name form their own attachments to it. Sort of like "My Star Wars" in Internet terms.

Personally, I consider the Clone Wars to be every bit as much of the overall story as the films. The Clone Wars are a necessary part of the continuity for how the galaxy was before AOTC, to where it is in the OT. Without the Clone Wars, you can't bridge that gap completely.

But I also don't think the way *I* see canon is how others should. It's up to the individual what they would and would not like to include.

The Clone Wars era has become my favorite part of the overall EU, comics and cartoons included. I think the Clone Wars stories have been brilliantly told, and they have surpassed all my expectations. Keep up the good work

 

They probaly imagine their own clone wars. I mean the Clone Wars exist, but I guess to purists they could have unfolded anyway they want.

 

It's just like Eeth Koth's death.

A person at the 3SA wouldn't accept that he died on the gunship that was blown up in AOTC because it was only mentioned in the EU.

I tried to explain to him that he won't be in Episode III and GL sure won't explain it, so he might as well accept the EU version, because no one else will explain it.

 

Basically anything from GL's mouth is what they think is right....therefore they prolly accept the cartoon as canon but not the comics,books,or game materials.

 

Well the movies are setup in such a way that reading the EU isn't necessary. I consider most of the EU a bonus but not mandatory, especially when it comes to the movies. The Clone Wars is talked about in A New Hope by both Leia and Obiwan. We see the start of it in Attack of the Clones. Then in the Clone Wars cartoon we see it again during the middle of the war. Take noticed that far more people will watch then and take notice of these events.

One would have a decent picture of what it was like and what the characters did during the war. Then at the beginning of the Episode 3 the war is suppose to becoming to an end, thus we'll see another part. Things are simple this way by just taking all of that into account and then not paying attention to the EU. I'm glad things are setup this way. I don't want to "HAVE" to read the EU to enjoy and understand certain things. I should be and is a bonus to me and something I can choose to read if I want to, not because I have to.

This is why I'm glad that Lucas doesn't pay much attention to the EU and will ignore it to tell his story. EU characters appearing in the movies is a bonus, cameos, something to show that the EU isn't completely ignore since having those characters don't hurt the story and can only add to it. Pretty much why they weren't introduced by name in the film but were shown close ups and again some of these characters are focused on during the Clone Wars cartoon. When one watches that they will remember seeing them in TPM or AOTC.

I don't know what you've been watching but the Clone Wars does not only exist in the EU. I am incline to think the Clone Wars cartoon is closer to the level of the movies then the EU comics and novels are. For the reasoning that it will be view by FAR more people then the novels or comics. Look at the sales for each issue of Empire or Republic. Say around between 15,000 to 6, 000 an issue. I doubt its any higher or lower after checking the numbers on ICv2. Then consider the numbers for the novels are decent but have been in decline over the years. Now compare that to the millions of viewers that the Clone Wars cartoon might get by airing on TV then factor in the free online viewing of it and you know they are going to release it on DVD sometime in the future. This is part of the reason I think the cartoon is setup in way it is. They expect people that are watching to not to have read the EU so it will seem to have more closure. When it comes to Asajj's end in the cartoon is an example of this if the spoilers for the episode of true. She would appear gone and dead in the cartoon but that might not be true in the comics but since most people won't have read them the cartoon explains where she is in Episode 3, for all other reasons she died in the cartoon. End of story.

One will assume that a cartoon that will be viewed by the public such as the Clone Wars will have a great deal of input by Lucas himself. After all look at the number of people that will see it. So most will hold it higher then the comics and novels. Same goes for the Ewok movies when they were released. They were done by Lucas, quite enjoyable if I'm remember correctly.

 

If these Purists still exist, how will they explain the Clone Wars since -- with the exception of the beginning and the end -- the Clone Wars exist ONLY in the EU?

Well I'm a purist and its quite, quite simple.

The Clone Wars don't really matter, its what happens at the beginning and the end of them thats crucial because they are apart of the story of Anakin Skywalker, and thats all I as a fan am really interested in.

I mean its fun reading some of the clone wars stuff, you yourself and others have done, but they dont matter to me because its not the core story.

 

The Clone Wars don't really matter, its what happens at the beginning and the end of them thats crucial because they are apart of the story of Anakin Skywalker...

Anakin's experiences in the Clone Wars do contribute to his character and his story-- he changes a lot between AotC and Episode 3.

 

Anakin's experiences in the Clone Wars do contribute to his character and his story-- he changes a lot between AotC and Episode 3.

Exactly.

In AOTC, Anakin thinks he's a good Jedi. By the time Ep. 3 starts, he is good, no question. He bridges that gap with everything he does inbetween.

 

Just because it isn?t on screen doesn?t mean that it isn?t there. Purists don?t disagree that there were Clone Wars, or that Luke became a Jedi Master, or that Han and Leia married and had children. And some of them even like the EU or parts of the EU. They just don?t accept that the EU to be anything more than fan fiction.

 

...or that Luke became a Jedi Master, or that Han and Leia married and had children.

You're in for a surprise.

 

The Clone Wars were mentioned in A New Hope, twice, which means that they did exist. For purists, it will probably be only a couple battles that are seen in the films.

 

You're in for a surprise.


How so?

 

"couple battles"

Please its clear from the movies that things were and will be more then a couple of battles. No one knew how long it would last though. Now with episode 3, its what only last a few years? Nothing was said in A New Hope to suggest it was only a few battles. Look at the battle in AOTC, do you honestly think people would assume just a few battles with the amount of foces on both sides? I don't think. Everyone knows it will be and was a large scaled war.

 

I can see where the "purists" are coming from. Star Wars isn't about the Clone Wars or Galactic Civil War, it's about how it effects the people who lived through it. The Clone Wars are the setting for the story, not the story itself. If you're interested with the human element, there really is no need to read EU.

 

But NeoStar nothing you say will convince a determined purist that there was anything more to the Clone Wars than the two battles, anything else is speculation.

Ok, you counter this by referring to the movies? The purist counters as they were merely authorised by LFL, they were not the product of the Lucas. (OK, I'm engaging in satire here...)

Trust me, nothing you do or concoct will win you this one.

As to the main topic, thus far, the CW EU is giving a superior picture to the films of showing just how the ground is laid for Empire. They are also weaving in neat little references to history long gone, such as the Sith War and Korriban (yay! finally! yes it's a sithpit but it's a cool one), but that of course would also be apocrypha to our diehard purist.

JB

 

Anakin's experiences in the Clone Wars do contribute to his character and his story-- he changes a lot between AotC and Episode 3.

Well of course, but the changes between the films are, in my mind, obvious anyway.
Two things came out of AOTC, which would happen between the films, Anakin furthering his Jedi path and his search for absolute power. However it isnt necessary to see the Clone War battles between the films, because his ambitions are dealt with at the beginning of Episode 3.

Thats why I view the clone war battles between AOTC & EP3 unimportant anyway.

 

Hopefully with several EU characters having camos in Episode 3 more people will accept EU

 

---

Well, from what I've seen, not all of them are happy we didn't get to see more than just those two battles in the films, but they basicly accept they occured but just not as they are depicted in the EU.[/b][hr][/blockquote]Logically speaking, someone hewing to that viewpoint is slightly like claiming that the primary reason for our deployment of the "Agent Orange" compound during the Viet Nam conflict was due to a declaration of war against the [b][i]trees[/b][/i] over there.

On this particular front, I think that we're seeing many more purists enjoying these stories than any time beforehand, undoubtedly owing in part to the comparative amount of "privileged access" that the creators have been granted to materials for the next flick than the last two times around -- and by proxy, ourselves. This has certainly enhanced the overall experience for the lion's share of the readers, insofar as Lucas's greater investiture in the process goes...up to and including yours truly.

 

Please its clear from the movies that things were and will be more then a couple of battles. No one knew how long it would last though. Now with episode 3, its what only last a few years? Nothing was said in A New Hope to suggest it was only a few battles. Look at the battle in AOTC, do you honestly think people would assume just a few battles with the amount of foces on both sides? I don't think. Everyone knows it will be and was a large scaled war.

From a purist's view, this would be correct, because there are no battles in between.

 

"Anything outside the 6 films is considered EU (even the stuff Lucas wrote like the Ewok telefilms and Star Tours), though I've noticed quite a few purists seem to consider the CW cartoon to be closer to the films than the rest of the EU, but's that's just their personal view, not the official designation."

Well, actually anything written by or from George Lucas are now considered "G canon"(ultimate level of canon) in LFL's current policy.

Anything in the films and from George Lucas (including unpublished internal notes that we might receive from him or from the film production department) is considered "G" canon...Similarly, any "C" canon item that makes it into the films can become "G" canon...Anything in the the novels created by George Lucas (whether it comes from unpublished early script versions, unpublished author interviews with George, or George's revisions to the novelization manuscript) would be G-level unless contradicted by the films.

-Leland Chee, Starwars.com

Things that are part of canon, but not from Lucas, are considered "C canon"(continuity canon). Additionally there is an "S canon"(Secondary canon) for a few old sources that haven't yet been incorporated back into "C canon".

 

Canon talk... ick...

However, I think that most EU fans consider the movies to be the higher canon, with the books occupying the next rung.