Exar Kun

What would Exar Kuns power level be compared to the other sith lords? Is he one of the greatest sith or is he just overrated? He seems to be really more powerful than some other sith lords. I just want to hear everyones opinions. Thanks

 

In my opinion, he is probably the most powerful ever, due to the feats he displayed. He'd outclass Palpatine and Vader by many levels, and even powerhouses like Revan, Malak, and Traya don't stand a chance against him. The only person I'd think that is more powerful, potentially more, is fully realized potential Anakin or Darth Nihilus, fully fed. Seriously, Anakin's power would be insane if he was allowed to reach it in canon. Plus, Nihilus, fully fed, was like Galactus in power scale...

 

I agree.

 

Marka Ragnos is the only guy I think that makes Kun look like a wimp, but we don't know the details of his reign, why he lived so long, and how he beated all the other Sith Lord. I mean, a Sith Lord actually dying of natural causes says something.

 

The Disciples of Ragnos tried to ressurect him in the Jedi Academy game. Jaden Korr prevented that. I'd imagine if they were successful, he would have showed everyone what an original Sith could do and lay down a world of hurt.

 

Jaden's Jobber Aura saved him...no way in hell should Jaden be able to beat something like Ragnos...

 

I don't know if I am sold on the original Markos Ragnos/Naga Sadow/Ludo Kresh types to be the all powerful beings that they should be. If anything, Ragnos beat that other guy (Head in jar guy) in combat and appeared to be a good diplomat. In fact, he doesn't even seem THAT Sithly if he was willing to let his opponant exist and give input as the head in a jar. He seemed ......LIKED amongst the Sith Lord circle, ultimately leading to his longevity.

Still, in all their glory, what exactely did these old great Sith do? Lord over a population of primitives? Build Some Spaceships? Have a lot of jewels? Live in caves? Attack the Republic (Which pretty much was unprepared for an attack..except for the Empress Theta system which had just faught a war.) and get totally annihilated?

Sith Later on in time had a lot more knowledge to work with. Granted some was lost, but new knowledge was found. I just can't see Ragnos not getting spanked around by the likes of Darth Sidious. Since Exar Kun was basically screwed over by Sadow, I am a little less impressed by him. His reign as dark lord was pretty darn short and his mind was pretty much demented. He locked himself up in the Temple, took over the mind of a new impressionable Jedi Knight and was defeated quickly. You may even recall "Darth Vader would find you so Quaint" - Mara Jade to Exar Kun.

When I think of powerful Sith, I think of those that had the Jedi at the brink of destruction. Reven and to a lesser degree Malak may have qualified. Nihilus was pretty much so insanely powerful that the Jedi feared gathering together on the same planet, as they would have been found immediately and the entire planet destroyed. Scion on the other hand....he seems like a pitiful excuse for a Sith. Sidious - his empire at least lasted a few decades and it took a betrayal by his apprentice to end it (same with Reven) Vader's potential power level is known to be the highest ever. Darth Bane - he might be worth looking into, due to his ability to resist the Mind bomb.

I think the farther you go back in ANY history - real or imagined - the ancient people seem so much stronger. The greatest general ever? Everyone says Alexander the great. Why not Patton, Montgomery or Eisenhower? In Lord of the Rings - we hear about how much stronger the first dark lord was....how the original elves were so awesome....how the numenoreans were so great. It seems that time leads to exaggeration of strength.

Carnage

 

WOTC seem to think Ragnos is Palpatine strong, which seems odd since we have never seen him do anything & when he possessed Tavion he was still unable to defeat jedi knight Jaden Korr.

Exar Kun is described as been extremely powerful. He is a master of the saber & alchemy. He obviously is well rounded but Palpatine is the most powerful Sith in history. Kun is on the same level as Dooku & Vader but with different strengths.

 

As much as I like Kun, he's not too special. He had his moments, as all baddies do, but ultimately, his greatest assets were inherited rather than earned. All he had to do was get stuck on Yavin IV and get tricked, and he became the lord of the Masassi, heir of someone's (Sadow's?) Alchemy lab, and Dark Lord of the Sith. It's like the Aliens in RvB "So, anyone who trips is a hero? Caboose must be God or something."

The vast majority of his power, not that the Force wasn't strong with him to begin with, comes from the Massassi temples, which, IIRC, were there before he got to Yavin. He just built more of them.

 

I consider Kun somewhat overrated, yes.

Consider that most of his "high power" feats required external apparatus and other artifacts to accomplish, in addition to lots of meditation/concentration, etc....

On a personal level, Kun was probably fairly powerful, but he was unable to overcome Ulic Qel-Droma in a one-on-one fight. You don't hear people crowing about how ungodly powerful Ulic was, and yet he stalemated Exar Kun. Thus: Kun on a personal level was not as powerful as some people make him out to be. If you include all his apparatus' and artifacts, then he was capable of some extraordinary feats, but it's not like he could just wave his hand and make stars go nova. He needed help.

I'm pretty sure that according to Lucasfilm, Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord ever, and Bane and Ragnos were just behind him. As noted above, Exar Kun seems to occupy the same level as Dooku and Vader (at least as far as his personal power and skill are concerned), which is probably where I'd put characters like Revan and Malak as well.

Nihilus and Sion are anomalies: Their condition and abilities do not seem like a natural outgrowth of the Sith teachings. The Sith teachings might have started them down that path, but other circumstances almost certainly turned them into the "monsters" they became. Whether Traya introduced some perversions into her version of the Sith teachings or perhaps the environment of Malachor V itself twisted and "mutated" them into the seemingly unstoppable things they became, it seems clear that they had "something extra" beyond just the normal Sith training and powers. Until other Sith characters with similar abilities are depicted, I don't think their "uber feats" (Planet-draining, seeming immortality) can really be counted as "Sith abilities". Much like the Jedi Exile's unusual status as a "force void/leech" can be considered a normal/common state for Force-Users.

 

Sidious isn't the most powerful Sith in history. He's one of the most manipulative, yet he is far from the strongest. Kun literally could slice him in half without even trying, or show him a true master of Force Lightning, TK, and Alchemy. He is so above the modern Sith, it isn't even funny. Really, everyone who believes that Sidious is the strongest is absolutely positively wrong, since he never did anything to prove it. He never did. All he did was conquer an crumbling Republic and a Stagnant, Complacent Jedi Order. Kun faced a strong Republic and Jedi Order, and had it on the run.

 

Ulic was a prodigy on Anakin's level. Stalemating Exar is a good, no excellent feat for him. Exar can, remember, create Earthquakes through the Force?

And that'd be wrong. Sidious is far from the strongest. Compared to his forebearers, he's actually one of the weakest, yet the Strongest Sith of his era.

Revan and Malak both outclass Sidious in pure power as well. Bane, a guy who can move celestial objects with TK alone is above Sidious.

To determine power level for characters, canon should be disregarded since, frankly, it is unreliable. It uses hyperbole, something unusable in feats. Feats show a characters abilities, strengths and weaknesses. They are the thing that should be used to determine a character's power level, since, quite frankly, if one guy can do a feat of strength and the other can't, or on a smaller scale, the former is the stronger.

 

Hyperbole, no basis in fact.

Kun did bring both the Republic and Jedi to the brink of destruction. Killed everyone in the Senate and killed the supposed Grand Master with such ease, no one could stop him.

 

Actually, this isn't the CBR Rumbles board. Canon rules here, and if George Lucas/Lucasfilm says Sidious was the most powerful Sith ever (which he does, as I recall) than he is. Period.

Take away the Sith Amulets and various other apparatus Exar Kun was wielding/carrying, and he becomes vastly less powerful.

Ulic an Anakin-level prodigy? Show canon proof, please. -No one- was an Anakin level prodigy except Anakin. That's the whole point of Anakin in the first place.

Revan and Malak more powerful than Sidious? Feats please, pointedly feats that are -not- based in game mechanics, which are by their nature not necessarily canon.

You might have an argument on another message board. But you -can't- ignore canon here, and when it comes to "Star Wars" canon, what George says is what goes, regardless of seeming evidence to the contrary.

 

Feats have nothing to do with potential though. We truly do not know how powerful Sidious was because he rarely had to use his power. We also don't know how powerful Revan, Malak, Kreia, or Sion were because game mechanics are hardly reliable.

 

Actually, this isn't the CBR Rumbles board. Canon rules here, and if George Lucas/Lucasfilm says Sidious was the most powerful Sith ever (which he does, as I recall) than he is. Period.


Actually, if I remember correctly, Sidious got owned by Mace in his office.

 

Still a matter of heavy debate, especially given that Sidious stalemates (if not defeats) Yoda a few hours later. Does anyone think Mace was more powerful than Yoda? I sure don't. Maybe a better duellist, but given that Palpatine was clearly "playing possum" after his initial lightning fusillade (notice that he kicks it right back up again when Anakin turns), he wasn't nearly as "owned" as he was trying to make it appear. I might buy that Mace out -fought- Palpatine, but he didn't over -power- him. Fortunately, the issue isn't whether Palpatine was the better fighter, it's whether he was the most powerful. Duelling skill isn't necessarily power.

And irrelevant anyway, because Mace wasn't a Sith, and we never really saw him fight any other Sith. In fact, Dooku and Asaajj Ventress both battle him without a conclusive victor in the comics. Are they both more powerful than Sidious now?

 

I don't go by Game Mechanics, I go by storyline, like things that happen in the loading screens, cinematics, cut scenes, things like that I use.

 

On CBR, SHC, and Cornstalkers, it is almost unanimously agreed that the modern Sith were the weakest incarnations.

 

That's nice. Does George Lucas post there and agree with them?

Feats are all well and good, and I'll gladly say that some of the older Sith have seemingly more impressive feats than Sidious. But the vast majority of them are anomalies like Nihilus or Sion, or require outside assistance like Star Forges, Sith Amulets, or Massassi Temples.

Then again, Sidious -did- invent the Force Storms, mastered life-transferral, wrapped Byss in a life-absorbing "web" of Dark Side energy, and notably, did -not- need external apparati or artifacts to generate or control the Force Storms, simply intense concentration. Which is more than any of the other Sith did purely under their own power, with the possible exception of Nihilus' world-draining.

 

It took the almost the entire jedi order to bring Kun down, if i remember correctly. And he did manage to retain his spirit for like 5000 years, not to mention he could affect the physical world while in his spirit form. I don't think i've heard of anyone being able to affect the physical world while in spirt from except Kun. And I think what Kun was trying to do with kyp was get enough control over him so he could inhabit his body, which is kind of what palpatine did, on a lesser scale.

 

If he did post, he'd lose, really. He really didn't create any proof that the Sith he created were the strongest. That's the thing, he can't prove they are the strongest, he can claim it all he wants, but when it comes down to it, if you ignore EU like he does...he has no case.

Actually, Revan did beat an amped up Malak who was using the Star Forge to increase his power by leaps and bounds. That kind of says something. And also, controlling the Star Forge, a structure as large or larger than the Second Death Star without getting drained, like Revan did...is really, really something.

Force Storms already existed. He made hyperspace wormholes really.

After the ancient Sith mocked him and showed him how to do it.

Not really that impressive, since Kun did drain the life of all the Manassi on Yavin IV to preserve himself.

It seemed to me he needed more than just concentration to create those Force Storms...

 

Exar Kun was indeed powerful, more powerful than Plagueis and Palps, IMO. Exar did manage to cheat death, in a way. he also assembled a huge fleet, manipulated Ulic into joining him, unlocked many Sith mysteries, made himself servants out of other Jedi. He was invincible in lightsaber battle. Those are the things that make a great Sith.
However, ancient Sith knew even more power. Sith Lords like Naga Sadow and Marka Ragnos held more knowledge than Exar Kun. Exar studied them and their marks in the history and he himself said that he could never fully understand some of those teachings. Not to mentions that many teachings from the times of the Great Hyperspace War were lost by the time of Exar Kun.
Exar is great, but not the greatest Sith ever.

 

Wow, so a bunch of forum members get to say what's true in an author's setting as opposed to the author himself? Sorry, that's bullhockey, and only shows that you know nothing about how "canon" works, or simply ignore it for the sake of your own arguments.

Yet we have no way of knowing if Sidious could have done it or not. And did you actually play the end of KotOR? How did Revan beat Malak? Oh yeah, he had to sever his connection to the Star Forge by destroying the trapped Jedi Malak was feeding off of. Revan didn't overpower an "amped up" Malak, he outsmarted and outfought him. There's a big difference.

 

You don't get it, it would just be he'd have to make his Sith stronger if and when he loses such a debate. Really, if Lucas was to debate his characters as they are now...he'd lose. They really did nothing impressive in the movies, and the EU is kind of inconsistent. If George was to debate, he'd have to follow the rules of the forums, which means his word would mean bantha poodoo. He'd have to prove his arguements, and if he couldn't, he'd lose the debate.

I've played it over a dozen times. And what about Malak acknowledging that Revan was the stronger of the two, even with the Star Forge powering him? Or the amped up Bastila?

Force Storm, not the type Palpatine was using, is something that can probably kill everyone in an entire room or ship with massive Force Lighting. Palpatine's 'Force Storm' creates a hyperspace wormhole that sucks in ships and entire fleets...and is kind of beyond his movie performance.

I remember reading Dark Empire, and when Sidious began asking why his bodies were degenerating so fast, the ancient Dark Lords mocked him on Korriban. He tried to control them, but failed as well.

Actually, I recall that Kun was the one who built the temples.

What was in the room that he was doing the Force Storm in? I don't have the comic on me, but I really think he was being amped up by a meditation room surrounded by Sith Artifacts or something. Do you have the comic on you? And if you do, can you scan the page where he starts the Force Storm?

Anyway, I've said my case, and I respectfully disagree with your assestment Jmacq1. I don't feel like debating anymore...long day.