Force Choke - Darkside Power or Not?

Was Anakin's force choke of Padme his first? Or had he done that before. I don't know if Luke uses that move in ROTJ, cause you really can't tell if those guards are choking or just trying to fight back against a force push. I think it's more of a force push. I think the choke is dark side, and that makes Anakin's turning all the more impressive - he's a quick learner.

 

The power is deffinatly dark side. And it is not Annie's first, he is actualy famous for it, he first dose it when he is thirteen, Obi-Wan had not allowed him a lightsaber yet adn he killed a Blood Carver with it after the Blood Carver kidnapped him. But it was like super choke, blood came out his nose and everything. Anakin also employed it several times through out the Clone wars (although he avoided using it infront of Obi-Wan or any other Jedi)
~Azure_Angel

 

I don't think that the choke is a dark side power, just one that a Jedi from the old order would not have used(except Anakin).

Luke uses it against the Gamorrean Guards at Jabba's palace.

 

That depends, is it being used to repel an attacking foe, or to strike first at an unarmed opponent? And is it released quickly, or continued until the victim is dead?

 

I think ROTJ is just an inconsistency

 

Nope, it was deliberate. Luke's dangerous close to turning to the dark side. The Force choke was to show us that he is walking a thin line. He could go either way. Anyway, the Force choke can be done by anyone. But it is something that only the Sith and Dark Jedi rely on. Anakin had done it before, but it was done to Captain Gillmunn following the defeat at Jabiim. Gillmunn was angry at Anakin who had been ordered to call for a retreat. He drew a blaster on Anakin, who instinctively choked him.

When Anakin killed Ke Daiv, the Blood Carver, he had done a variation of the Sith Lightning. He had managed to burn the Blood Carver from the inside out. Anakin did something along the lines of a choke to Ke Daiv, but that was not what killed him.

 

I agree with Sinister.

The force choke can be used by anyone, although it's a darkside trait. Strangulation is hardly a nice way to die or get your point across. Afterall the jedi wouldn't use this tactic as they are peacekeepers. Luke displayed signs to the audience that he could be tempted to the darkside, thus Lucas had him display the choke.

However it is possible (although I doubt it) that it could be an inconsistancy, considering how for months Lucas had Revenge of the Jedi as the title until the last minute, this could of been something that was overlooked.

 

All Hail the Potentium!

By the movies, The Force Choke is definately a Dark Side power. If you delve into the books, you will find some people believe that any use of the force...even things like force choke are fine if you are using it to achieve a light side end. The point is controversial. I would say that in RoTJ, when Luke used the force choke on the Gomo(whatever) guards, it was a bit overkill. They were moving in to block his entrance, not to kill him. It appeared to me that he had the option to at least TRY to communicate with the guards before suffocating them. Even if they did not die, he deliberately caused them pain and fear to make things easier for himself. "Is the Dark Side Stronger?" "No. Quicker, Easier"

Carnage

 

Ehhh, I was under the impression that he really wasn't anywhere close to turning until Palps was siccing him against Vader.

 

Nope. He's filled with anger at Obi-wan for telling him something that might be a lie. Then he lets his feelings be known when he finally gets to confront him. He Force choked the Gammoreans and was going to use a blaster to force Jabba to settle up. When he's shot in the hand, he lashes out in a very aggressive manner.

 

There is no such thing as a "darkside power" or a "lightside power".

Any force user has the ability to learn any force power whether they are lightside or darkside.

Its the person and the motivation behind why the power is being used that is either good or evil, not the power itself.

 

In the specific case of "Force Choke", I don't think it should be considered a "power" in its own right at all, because it's just an application of telekinesis.

But really, this whole "segregation into dark and light powers" bugs me. I believe in an external 'dark side of the Force', but I think it can be used to fuel pretty much *any* power.

If you're using anger and rage to heal yourself or others, then you're using the dark side - regardless of the fact that "healing is nice". Likewise, if you're calm, serene and hold no anger in your heart when you're enhancing yourself through the Force and directing your lightsaber to kill your opponents, then you're not using the dark side, regardless of the fact that "killing isn't nice".

Yes, there are some uses of the Force that would seem to *require* anger and hatred to work - Sith lightning springs to mind, but really, for a dark side user in combat *every* use of the Force is a dark side power, because they're fuelling *everything they do* with their hatred, which is the emotion to which the dark side answers.

So when they jump really far? They're calling on the dark side.

When they use the Force to pull an object to them or throw it at someone else? They're calling on the dark side.

The dark side's the 'easy side' after all, why bother making yourself work any harder?

 

It's never stated in the films that any power is specifically a "Dark Side" power. It's never even implied by any character.

In fact You?d think that after Anakin saw Dooku shooting lightning bolts from his fingers he would have asked someone ?what the heck was that???? lol.

 

I agree with KennethMorgan, it depends on how it's used. Even though they probably wouldn't do that, I think it would be ok for a Jedi to defend himself against a suddenly attacking foe to fend him of momentarily. I do think it would be evil to hold on until the victim dies however.

Vader's use of the choke are all very dark in nature, used against unarmed people who were no threat to him. Luke used it to fend of the guards so I don't think it was that bad (unless he killed them but I really don't think so).

 

Anyway, the Force choke can be done by anyone. But it is something that only the Sith and Dark Jedi rely on.


Going by the movies alone, we dont see Sids, Maul or Dooku use the Force choke. So it seems its something only the Skywalkers rely on. A genetic trait perhaps.

 

Actually, Dooku was choking Obi Wan in RotS when he lifted him up with the force before he threw him. you can blatantly see Obi Wan grap for his throat.

 

? What books/cartoons are the above mentioned examples from?

And on the main ?, the choke is used for attack when I remember seeing it, esp. by Anakin in ROTS. It's not a defensive move, so it doesn't seem to "the Jedi way". It's aggressive like the Sith lightning.

 

It would be the Jedi way if the Jedi was bound and that the only way to stop his enemy from killing him.

Luke using it in ROTJ was borderline, because he choked the guards enough get them out of his way instead of killing them.

 

Anakin killed Ke Daiv in the novel "Rogue Planet". Anakin Force choked for the first time in "Star Wars-Republic: The Last Stand On Jabiim".

Outside of the video games and that's only because they have to make it interesting, none of the Jedi during their long run used it. And during Luke's time in the post ROTJ eu, he didn't use it. A couple of Luke's students did it, but they were either totally aggressive to the point where they would fall or unable to control their emotions, because of the threat of the Yuuzhan Vong.

As it is, the concept is that there shouldn't be such a use of the Force. It's being used for attack, no matter what intention there is. Thus Obi-wan, Yoda, Mace, Qui-gon and others from this era never relied on it as a last result or a surprise attack. In fact, they rarely used the Force on any living being. They would only employ Force shoves on a Sith Lord and Dark Jedi in the eu. Seldomly was it done to a living being. We only see Yoda do it to a few Clonetroopers, during the fight in front of the Temple. Grievous could take the Force shove from Obi-wan. The only real Force ability that they used on a living being was the mind trick. That's all the Jedi used. The Sith didn't believe in such restraint, which is why you see them use whatever comes to mind.

 

Force choke isn't a dark side power. It can be used in self-defense. If you are unarmed and need to subdue an opponent, a Force choke might be your only option. You might be in an enviornment where telekinesis wouldn't be useful.

In the ROTS Commentary, it is said that Mace Windu used a Force choke on General Grievous. If Mace is using the power, then it can't be a dark side technique.

 

Hmmm, after watching it again, it looks like more of a Force lift by the neck than a choke. Small technical difference, unless youre the person its being done to. So that may be called a Force hanging. Heres what the scripts says :

"As the battle proceeds, OBI-WAN and COUNT DOOKU are tired. ANAKIN is stronger as he becomes angry. ANAKIN continues to drive the attack on DOOKU. COUNT DOOKU throws OBI-WAN back using the Force.
ANAKIN and COUNT DOOKU move up the stairs. As they reach the upper landing of the General's Quarters, ANAKIN leaps over COUNT DOOKU. OBI-WAN reaches the top of the stairs, destroying TWO SUPER BATTLE DROIDS. COUNT DOOKU holds OBI-WAN in the air using the Force as he turns and kicks ANAKIN out of frame. OBI-WAN is choking.
ANAKIN hits the archway.
DOOKU sends OBI-WAN flying. The Jedi tumbles to the lower level unconscious. COUNT DOOKU spins around again and, using the Force, causes a section of the balcony to drop onto OBI-WAN. ANAKIN spins and kicks COUNT DOOKU, sending him over the balcony. ANAKIN Jumps, following him down to the main floor. COUNT DOOKU and ANAKIN continue the fight. "

 

yep, everybody (force users) can do it but only dark sider choose to use it

 

Obi, Mace, Yoda, etc were never in a situation where they had to use the force in that manner as far as I know(I haven't got around to reading much the prequel EU yet). They knew more about the force than Luke did at the time he used it. I've read most of the post ROTJ EU, so I pretty much know what Luke and his Jedi did or didn't do in that timeframe. Anyways, my snippet above was a hypothetical scenario. Most Jedi wouldn't be in that situation like that to begin with.

 

Mr. Sinister, I would have to disagree. It's really all about intent. Your argument that "It's being used for attack, so it's bad." falls out to the fact that the Jedi commonly use lightsabers for that very purpose. What differentiates the Force from a lightsaber? I would argue that they are both tools put to use by the Jedi.

 

To be honest i agree the hypothetical here was being taken a bit out of perspective.

So far we have a bound jedi about to be murdered for unknown reasons, we're also assuming that reasoning with the person about to kill him has failed i guess, and the jedi is going to use a choke because nothing else will work?

That is a ridiculous thing to argue, if it even happened at all it's some small fraction of a percentage type of situation and i'm sure that would be judged on a case by case basis.

I personally agree with Sinister and his comments about the intent and why we are shown what we're shown in the films concerning Anakin and Luke using a choke and the rare use by any other force users.

I cannot imagine a situation where the force could be used to choke someone, let us assume to unconciousness since murder is no doubt evil, and nothing else would work.

I think that is such a remote possibility that it's pushing envelope of possibilities and no basis for an argument based on broad intent, rules and guide lines.

I don't think however if you were in that rare situation that you'd immediately be thrown out of the order, especially not a respected jedi.

If Obi-wan found himself in such a situation i doubt anyone would really question it, i did not see any type of investigation done even in the PT but if one was done it would only be cursory to verify the facts.

EDIT:

Here is why i dissagree with your lightsaber argument.

A blade like a hand gun is weapon, but a weapon is still