Full Series General Krell.... How did he possibly ever become a Jedi Master?

Master Krell is the farthest from a Jedi I think I may have ever seen, how on earth did he receive not only the title of Master, but also command of anything? He needlessly allows and causes death, and just generally is more Sith-like then Jedi. Anyone have any thoughts or knowledge from beyond the series (books etc)?

 

...and then I finished the episode and he's crazy/powertripping. This is still open to any kinds of discussion if anyone wants though!

 

You know what they say about guys with four hands...

 

I realize this now, thank you.

 

You realize he didn't start off like this from birth right? He's probably no different from Dooku or Anakin, in that he always had dark traits in his personality, but once they fell and he didn't care anymore they were amplified and became the key traits to his character. I also doubt that he was acting like he did when he was around other Jedi like Yoda or Mace.

 

Cause he's tall

 

The Yoda arc suggests that the war is even causing Yoda's Dark Side to grow in power. Thus I have no doubt it did the same to Krell.

Plus, it's not like the the Jedi don't feel emotions. It's clear that they do. They just are supposed to meditate and keep their mind free of strong emotions, which isn't always possible. So, Krell may have held a disdain with the clones from the beginning and a fear of losing the war, compounded by the fact that he saw a future in which a new order would rise to take control of the galaxy. Over the course of fighting battles, he may have lost control of the hate and fear, which then caused him to slip into a sadistic personality that derived joy from playing the clones and treating them as inferior. And he sought to sabotage the Republic effort so that he could appeal to Dooku and jump sides to the side that he thought was going to win.

We see the same kind of insanity with Barriss Offee. As the war drags on, she goes from a very proper and studious Jedi, to one who hates what the Jedi have become and is willing to kill her frame her friend in a plot to turn Republic opinion against the Jedi.

Krell, like Barriss, would not have always been psychotic. We just never really got the chance to see what Krell was like before he fell.

 

Agreed, TaradosGon.

In fact, if I may elaborate a bit more regarding the events of Destiny and how it relates to how the Jedi Order behaved during the course of the war. The Dark Yoda says, “And yet you spend your days in the decadence of war and with that, I grow inside you. Know your true self. Face me now…or I will devour you!” It's clear that while this creature is only representative of Yoda's own dark side, the longer the Jedi spent fighting the Clone Wars, the more and more Jedi fall prey to their darker impulses, choosing to "take the easier path" and sometimes even taking with them "an ends justify the means" type mentality like Anakin. These things feed the dark side that exists within every Jedi, and through this trial Yoda learns to defeat his darkness by acknowledging his hubris and then controlling it, refusing to allow it to ever take over. This is something that many of the PT Jedi failed to do, and this is again most evidenced by the falls of Pong Krell and Barriss Offee, both of whom surrendered to the morbid, debilitating realities of war and allowed their dark sides to consume them and thereby influence their actions. The greater Clone Wars-era EU serves to reinforce this point, with several Jedi defecting from the Order and even joining Count Dooku as Dark Acolytes.

I think the takeaway here is that pride is one thing that can slowly start a Jedi towards falling, or at least strengthening their dark side. The refusal to acknowledge they have a darkness within them increases the risk of this happening. They might not realize or even notice it, but the more time they spend fighting the war, killing others and having a mentality of winning at all costs, the stronger the dark side becomes overall. Sidious himself wrote in Book of Sith that the dark side continued to strengthen along with his own powers as the war dragged on. While the vast majority of Jedi remained good and never allowed their dark side to control them, many did fall, or at least contribute, however indirectly and unknowingly, to the eventual Sith victory.

"Wars not make one great."

 

Quinlan Vos is another example of a Jedi who was openly disdainful towards clone troopers, at least in the EU. But seeing as he was friendly to Cody in "Hunt for Ziro" it's kind of up in the air as to whether that's still considered canon.

 

I don't know about that. Just because at some point down the line the Jedi discovered that Dooku was a Sith, perhaps as early as AOTC (though I don't see know as falling to the Dark Side does not inherently make one Sith, just as Krell and Barriss were not).

The Sith are sworn enemies of the Jedi. When they find out that the guy leading their opponent is a Sith Lord, I would think that they pretty much would see the war as a war to stave off oppression as well as merely to keep the Jedi Order alive. I don't know if the Jedi ever seriously entertained the idea of being able to negotiate a peace or ending that war in any way that didn't involve Dooku being killed or arrested, both of which would require an army so as to fight their way to him.

That's why when Barriss talks about the Jedi losing their way and how they shouldn't be soldiers, etc. I don't see what she would have rather the Jedi do. There was a Sith Lord that was aiming to conquer the Republic as far as they were concerned, and I'm pretty sure they knew that if such a thing were to happen, that they would be wiped out. So, if they just sat on their hands and let the Republic military handle it, or if they chose to handle it without the help of an army, I don't see what they would accomplish. They'd either be putting their fate in the hands of the military, or they would be attempting a suicide mission.

 

There's also Kota, who while he never showed any disdain for Clones, didn't trust them enough to work alongside them and instead trained and worked with his own group of soldiers. At the same time, there's then Anakin, Obi-Wan, K'kruhk, and numerous other Jedi who cared for the clones and valued their lives just as much as any other being. I think the answer is simply that different Jedi have different values and opinions, just like anyone else.

 

I am utterly baffled by this thread. I have no idea why anyone would question Krell's Jedi Mastery or his worthiness of command.

 

TCW follows the simplistic black/white approach to characterization. If a character is mean to someone, then that character is a meanie villain. Imo, if you go past that, then you're overthinking it.

 

The TCW tie-in background book "What Is a Sith Warrior" discusses Krell - says he was a good leader of troops at first, before becoming corrupted.

 

I enjoyed Krell. He was pretty damn cool! Just watched the arc last night and it's a pity we didn't get to see more of him before the arc. Even just in passing or in a meeting. He's a very cool character.

 

well he turned to the other side just like Dooku did. Dooku was once a Jedi Master and then left and became a Separatist Leader. Similar to Pong Krell's position except Krell stayed in and killed some clones

 

And yet nobody on the JHC ever bothers to call Krell on the massive losses he sustains. Nobody ever sits down and says "mate, you are a terrible commander". I think this reveals something far more insidious about the Jedi: they don't care about the clones at all and are quite happy to use them as cannon fodder to achieve their own ends. Guardians of peace and justice my left foot! They use an army of indentured slaves and they seem perfectly okay with it.

 

Was established in TPM, that the Jedi did not consider all beings equal. "The ability to speak, does not make you intelligent." So Krell's views of the Clones under his command, would've been perfectly in-line with the beliefs of the Jedi Council of the movies, even his detachment towards them, probably more so since they were product and created for one reason rather like Battle Droids. Jedi forming attachments to their troops could be interpreted as a Dark Side characteristic they developed under the war time conditions. But again, the Jedi were corrupted to some degree by the Dark Side due to the Sith shrine and Palpatine's influence. Krell's victories spoke for themselves, so there would be no reason to really question him, unless he was responsible for heavy civilian losses in the process

We do not know enough about Krell before he turned to the Dark Side, or just how deep his fall was or for how long. He seemed very much wanting to become an apprentice to Dooku, maybe this was Krell big break and offering to Dooku. But Jedi going Dark has been around for ages, the 1st Sith was a former Jedi and it basically mimics Satan's fall, from Angel to Devil. The Jedi cannot really tell who has went bad, they can only suspect and imprison(Ahsoka and Yoda and Vos). About all they can do is a subsequent persecution of a presumed offender . Even Jinn who held unorthodox & unpopular views was kept off the Council, and scrutinized by his peers just because he was not part of the collective.

 

Maybe he was just a naturally forceful and violently-inclined Jedi anyway and presumably the war just tapped into that.