"Hard to see the dark side is..."

In both ATOC and TPM Yoda says that the dark side clouds everything, and the future becomes hard to see and so on. This seems to be why they can't "sense" the sith and Sidious. Some has pointed this out as a plothole, if the Jedi are so powerful shouldn't they be able to se the dark side?
I was thinking that maybe the "dark side" is all that corruption in the senate. Bad politicans exists everywhere and if you have a lot of them, their actions might cloud the force. They are kind of halfbad, they get a bribe here, do a little charity-work there. They are on both sides at the same time, and that might make it very hard or near impossible to find one sith.

 

Could be, sounds possible.

 

I wouldn't consider it a plothole it's just that the Jedi aren't powerful enough to sense the dark side. They're still powerful.

 

Lucas has said the darkside is the more powerful side. In AOTC we learn that the Jedi's ability to use the force is diminishing. I wouldn't have considered it a plothole.

 

I posted this in another thread, and so I thought it would be fitting here as well, as to why the Jedi cannot just sense things and persons that are under the influence of the dark side.


That is the entire point of the dark side "clouding" certain things. Or more appropriately to say that the Sith clouded all those things that would create the Clone Wars.

This is the point that Dooku makes when he speaks with Obi-Wan, that the Sith/dark side has blinded the Jedi from seeing these events, even though they took place right under their noses.

It appears that the Sith have the ability through the dark side to cloud and blind the Jedi from seeing and sensing certain things they wish for them not to see.

Remember what Yoda said in TPM, "Hard to see the dark side is". The nature and presence of the dark side is hard to see, so the Sith have the ability to use and manipulate this to hide and conceal their plans.

This is the major point that we learn from AOTC besides Anakin next steps toward the dark side, and is culminated in Yoda's words at the end when it is he, Obi-Wan and Mace discussing what has transpired,

"The shroud of the dark side has fallen, begun this Clone War has"

Yoda at that point has come to know what the Sith's plans are in part, and that was creating this war, and the clones were a major part. This is why he so names them, the The Clone War(s)


Darth Sin!

 

OMG, even after seeing AOTC countless times that line that yoda says never really meant much to me. But now that it is pointed out that the shroud has fallen, couldn't Yoda now sense who is behind it all. He seems suspicious of Palpatine already. Perhaps the jedi will be fighting the empire by the start of Episode 3.

 

Lucas has said the darkside is the more powerful side

but what about yoda, he was beating dooku, he could beat sidious/palpatine seeing as all he has is sith lightning and i think a yoda in his prime could beat darth vader

 

"do not underestimate the power of the emperor"

 

well i hope we actually get to see the power of palps in epIII, seeing as with the sith lightning on its own he doesnt seem like much

 

I've summed it up elsewhere as being somewhat analogous to Highlander: the fewer and fewer Sith there are, the more powerful they become, each one containing a powerful reservoir of Dark Side energy that can be tapped into.

The flip side of this being, the more Jedi there are, the *less* they are able to accomplish the exact same thing, the power of the Force being widely diffuse and spread out amongst so many. And when there are only a scant few remaining (Obi-Wan, Yoda, Vima-Da-Boda), they are able to pull off tricks that they weren't able to beforehand, such as Palpatine's own feat of "cloaking" their auras and hiding out in plain view.

Obviously, the power of the Dark Side had been growing ever since a thousand years past and the Battle of Ruusan, and by the time of the prequels, this reaches a critical mass, one that contributes to the numerical and spiritual decline of the Jedi Knights, and the growing "shroud of the Dark Side" that Yoda and others feel enveloping them all.

 

Edward I would like to ask you what makes you think that Yoda could beat Palpatine. Yoda was having trouble with Dooku. The fight was clearly a draw, though I do concede that if it were to go on for longer then Dooku would have probably lost. However it still establshes that Yoda is marginally better than Dooku.

Therefore if Yoda is only marginally better than Dooku what makes you jump to the conclusion that he is more powerful than Palpatine, since it is almost certain that Palpatine is more powerful than his apprentice. If that is the case then it is aslo likely that at worse Palpatine is equal to Yoda and he is likely a lot more powerful.
Then when the fact that Palpatine is the ruler of the galaxy and Yoda is living in the swamp hiding away from here it does seem to portray the idea that Palpatine is stronger. Please give me some reasons why you assumed Yoda was stronger.

 

"Some has pointed this out as a plothole, if the Jedi are so powerful shouldn't they be able to se the dark side? "

Not if Palpatien has figured out how to hide himself.

 

I might also add to my above thoughts that the very reason the Rebellion was able to succeed against the Empire was BECAUSE of the decimation of the Jedi, that the Jedi *needed* to be out of the picture almost completely in order for others to come along and destroy the Sith. Luke certainly aided in this, but it took an army non-Force-wielding "mundanes" with fleets of spaceships to effectively accomplish the final overthrow of Palpatine, if that makes any sense.

 

skycrawler, simply going by what i have seen so far in the movies. I would like to be proved wrong, as i would like to see palpatines true powers

 

Then when the fact that Palpatine is the ruler of the galaxy and Yoda is living in the swamp hiding away from here it does seem to portray the idea that Palpatine is stronger

Dont forget about Vader. Vader IS more powerful than Yoda. Or, at least, was more powerful. Before he had to put on The Suit. If Yoda tried to go after the Emperor, he'd have to face Palps, Vader, plus thousands of stormtroopers. Not very good odds. Yoda had a more important mission -- wait for, and train, Anakin's son.

 

although i agree with you, shame to put such a good warrior to wastse

 

"I might also add to my above thoughts that the very reason the Rebellion was able to succeed against the Empire was BECAUSE of the decimation of the Jedi, that the Jedi *needed* to be out of the picture almost completely in order for others to come along and destroy the Sith. Luke certainly aided in this, but it took an army non-Force-wielding "mundanes" with fleets of spaceships to effectively accomplish the final overthrow of Palpatine, if that makes any sense."

Yes and notice how that also is somehwat portrayed in LotR. Elrond says that the elves have to leave middleearth for the humans, just after this one last battle...





DD - Elvish Spliff

 

Look at the Jedi archives for an analogy.

The Jedi trust the Force.
They trust their archives.

The Jedi are all about knowledge of the Force- understanding it, carrying out it's will.
The Sith are about using the Force for their own ends. They can see the future etc. just like the Jedi- but they have no qualms about manipulating it for their own purposes.

So, anyway, someone with an obvious knowledge of the Archives has manipulated them. Kamino is still there- provided you know where to look. (Remember the thing about it's gravity?) It's become "hard to see."

Their ability to use their archives has been diminshed.

etc. etc.

(I had written that out better, but my PC crashed...)

 

Yoda said it and made it known for EpI. That was our first hint about the power of the dark side.