Hologram identification technology FAIL

In the TCW episode The Academy, Prime Minister Almec is identified while in hologram form, even though he is wearing a cloak that covers virtually all of his potentially identifiable/recognizable physical features. How can this be so? How can such hologram-decoding technology exist? The reason I pose this question, is that it would seem that by introducing such a technological concept into the show, Filoni and his team have made a major gaffe; if the technology to decode holo-images exists in the Star Wars universe, then why on Earth didn't the Jedi discover Sidious' true identity as Palpatine from his very first appearance in hologram form? It seems to me that this new technology basically renders wearing dark cloaks to be useless, if an individual can easily be seemingly 'x-rayed' through any clothing they may be wearing while on hologram. What are your thoughts on this?

 

In no particular order: Its a bit of tech we've never seen up til this point but has alwasy existed off screen, no one in the republic has a good hologram of Sidious I think so I don't even know if they could scan it, it was a bit of Du Ex Maicia and will never be seen again so I really could care less.

 

They did try it on some Sidious holos, but all they saw was some old woman with monkey eyes.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Jedi ever actually got to see a Sidious hologram, so they would've never been able to use the scanner to reveal his true identity. Plus, I imagine Sidious used some encryption to prevent his particular hologram from being analyzed as such.

All that aside, the use of the holo scanner in "The Academy" was the epitome of deus-ex-machina lazy writing.

 

For once, I agree with the LACWAC curmudgeons.

 

It wasn't the holo scanner, it was that damned "Information Retrieval". If I'm not mistaken it's the same system Papanoida used to track the blood down to Greedo on Tatooine. Apparently all you need to do is scan something, send it to "Information Retrieval", ask them what you need done to that sample, and in about 2.7 seconds those guys will send back whatever information you require. From the home address of a petty criminal in the other side of the galaxy, to those precious pixels that were completely absent from your holo.

In other words:
<img src="http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/939/informationretreival.jpg">

 

Wait -- what?!?

 

There you go, Bane could have just scanned the senate building with that device and information retrieval would have done the rest.

 

(Cad Bane setting up the scanner on the side of the Senate building)

Voice: Hey! What are you doing back there?

(Cad Bane turns around, seeing 20+ Clones surrounding him)

 

This is not such a big fail- whole holotechnology is so odd that there may be thousands of different holograms- not all may be so easy to identificate as Almecs - i think sidious (who is master in faking holos) actually uses some coding that prevents that sort of reading- while almec don't- we should see episode with jedi finding sidious holo and then trying to identify it with that thing and fail... but so far jedi haven't seen even hologram of Sidious in G-canon -and they cannot identify everything with that thing anyway..... still i agree that writers created unnecessary problem when they patched up the plothole with this "allknowing scanner"

 

No, it is a big fail. It's just some quick random shortcut for them.

 

Yeah it's shortcut.... but no it is not a big fail- since no one in G-canon never ever sees Sidious- and seps wouldn't dare to scan him like that....

 

It's not only G-Canon, however. And TCW is T-Canon, not G.

 

What... no jedi in movies sees sidious so no jedi in G-canon sees sidious- is there a problem in understanding my comment- i didn't say anything about eu and i definitely didn't claim that TCW would be G-canon.... actually no one in T-canon sees sidious either... so it's only eu vs. lucas problem again.... but i think that simply estabilishing that holo can be protected from such scanning or not- would remove the problem... Almec is not as wise as Sidious and he uses only cloak- sidious uses some sort of protected connection and cloak- preventing identifying by both seeing and scanning.... there is much bigger retcons in EU and holotechnology don't really make sense anyway- how those holocameras can "see" only the characters speaking- without their backgrounds... but sometimes background is also seen ... come on this is fantasy more than scifi what comes to these questions.....


BTW... if all holos can be x-rayed through clothing... then all pervs in the galaxy -can see everyone naked as well ...

 

Infinity titles are still EU, the canon designations are not tied to the term EU.

When the Star Wars Expanded Universe Action Figure 2 Packs were coming out, including figures based on the "infinities" tales(which are outside canon), they were still called Expanded Universe Figures.

C-Canon and the term EU are not mutual to each other.

From Star Wars Shop: http://shop.starwars.com/catalog/product.xml?topcatID=1300264;product_id=405560

 

Well has this something to do with this hologram technology issue?

 

Looks like somebody couldn't get that discussion limited to that one thread above...

 

There's not much wrong with the way the technology is used - it is just not explained on screen. Possibly this is because the writers feel that the audience is literate enough to imagine how such a thing would work without the need for an explanation.

Almec was hooded and his face was in darkness, thus the recording of him rendered his face in darkness. However, the fact that his face actually appeared later shows that the information was there but too dark to see with the naked eye. Thus Ahsoka used the scanner on the dark image and it was able to recognise the darkened fatures as Almec. And since it had been asked to identify the image, it proceeded to lighten the face so it could be seen.

You could use the same technology on Sidious, but it would have to be in a holo-image taken of him in the flesh. The hologram of Almec was recorded surreptitiously, thus his features were in the image, even though they were in darkness to begin with. Sidious's holograms are sent by him personally and therefore it is likely that his face is not even in the image - the dark parts of the image are just blank and therefore cannot be scanned in the same way as Almec's hologram was.


It wasn't the holo scanner, it was that damned "Information Retrieval". If I'm not mistaken it's the same system Papanoida used to track the blood down to Greedo on Tatooine. Apparently all you need to do is scan something, send it to "Information Retrieval", ask them what you need done to that sample, and in about 2.7 seconds those guys will send back whatever information you require. From the home address of a petty criminal in the other side of the galaxy, to those precious pixels that were completely absent from your holo.

I don?t see what?s so wrong with the system ? it seems pretty standard for sci-fi. A lot of information might be a matter of public record, available to all on a central database somewhere. Obviously it would be possible to look up what the PM of Mandalore looks like.

Info like DNA of criminals might be available to the public but it is obviously possible that Papanoida would be able to access it anyway. He is a planetary leader and therefore has access to Republic authorities? records which may be shared with all systems so local law enforcement can look up details on people who commit crimes on their world. Also, the EU says that Papanoida has an extensive information network of his own. So he can obviously access a lot of information quickly, and Ahsoka has Jedi resources of course.

There are no ?guys at information retrieval?, just a scanner that can connect to databases, either public or private, to provide you almost instantly with the info you require on what the object or sample is that you have scanned. Just like a tricorder in Star Trek ? you scan something and then get the answer back from the ship?s computer, or even from records held elsewhere maybe.

The point about the ?pixels being completely absent? demonstrates what many people seem to have missed about the way the technology was employed. The pixels were there ? Almec?s face was there ? it was just rendered in shadow because that?s what it looked like in real life. Thus is was necessary to scan it to identify it and to lighten the image before it could be identified. If the pixels weren?t there it would never have been possible to identify it, would it? Therefore the image must have been there all along, but too dark to see.

Like I said, the scene with the scanners used by Papanoida and Ahsoka seemed like pretty standard sci-fi fare to me. In terms of technology it seems like scanning something and then identifying it from electronic records is fairly realistic ? it?s just an extension of existing technology. I don?t know why people are so incredulous about it ? if it hadn?t read the posts here I wouldn?t even have thought anything more about it. The whole thing seemed perfectly reasonable and understandable straight away.

 

One point to remember is that holograms are different from photographs. If you take a photo in a pitch black room then you?ll get a picture of nothing because the camera works by taking in the light that is present. A holocam sends out its own rays to scan the environment and then record the image based on what those rays touch. So in a dark room it is still perfectly possible to make an image ? but it will be a dark image because everything in the room looks black. So the image may appear to be blank because everything in it is rendered dark, yet the contents of the room is actually there. To see the holo-image properly it would be necessary to lighten it up.

So that?s how it was with Almec?s hologram in The Academy. His face was in darkness, thus it was recorded as such, as a dark image, yet the features were there. The nature of hologram technology means that although an image was recorded in darkness, the camera/player knows what the object should look like because it has scanned its surface ? it knows what colours are present for example ? and can therefore readily alter the image so that it appears how it would if there was light.

Ahsoka used her device to scan the image and requested that it be identified. So the scanner would have retrieved the info on who was in the image and also interfaced with the hologram player to adjust the image so it can be seen.

 

I actually have no problem with a device that re-interprets and re-processes holo images in order to make parts of it clearer. What irks me is this "wish-granting jeannie" system that is Information Retrieval. From the two very different uses we have seen it fullfil (dna cross-referencing and holo-enhancement) it proves to be a ludicrous device that exists simply to quickly and easily provide character with vital information so that the writers can wrap everything up quickly. If you can count on Information Retrieval for such widely different tasks such as the ones we've seen, what else will they use it for next? Midi-chlorian counts? Hyperspace tracking? Bombing coordinates? Getting a girl's phone-number?

 

A planetary leader and a galactic government operative using high-end technology to retrieve information? How DARE Lucasfilm portray such improbable acts!