Homelessness is a choice, not a result of circumstance.

I've been thinking about this one for a while, and feel it's worthy of Senate debate.

There are homeless people in every major city in this country, and probably in your country too. Most claim to be a victim of society, or have some lengthy sob story, and currently every street corner in central London has someone begging with a "hungry and homeless" sign.

In my opinion, they are homeless because they choose to be - not because of a set of uncontrollable circumstances.

I've had this debate in other forums, and never been given a satisfactory reason why any should ever become homeless. Furthermore, I've never been given a reason what's preventing a homeless person getting off their derrier and getting their life back on track.

Further info :-

Reasons why people become homeless

Reasons I have been given before for a someone becoming homeless is that they loose their home home either through unemployment, sickness or it burns to the ground. Firstly, anyone with a mortgage *should* have comprehensive insurance to cover unemployment or sickness - yes you'll pay a premium, but it's worth it for peace-of-mind should the worst happen. (Currently I pay £35 (~$60) a month in payment insurance). Secondly, anyone who owns a home should have it insured against fire, flood, acts-of-God etc - again, it isn't expensive, and in this country it's legally requried when owning a home.

Second highest reason I've received is the high number of teenage homeless who run away from home because of domestic violence, sexual abuse or emotional abuse. There are countless state bodies there to help you if you are stuck in this sort of situation - running away is never the answer. You are the victim, and you should not have to live in fear or in a situation of abuse - however, you shouldn't run away.

A final reason are those who are too sick to look after themselves, or have serious mental problems. There are countless hospitals and shelter institutes who will take you in. Certainly in this country if you go to hospital they have to legally find you a place somewhere.

Reasons why the homeless can't get back on track

This is undoubtably very difficult and requires effort, but there's nothing stopping those who want to get back into society doing so. There are shelters you can stay in, and use as a street address for finding work (typically they are just street addresses rather than "So and Sos Homeless Shelter".

Sickness or mental problems. A made the point above that there are places set up to deal with those who cannot look after themselves, or have serious problems on a day-to-day basis. There's no reason they should be homeless.




However, the vast majority of the homeless on our streets are not sick, but choose to be there because it's eaier than shouldering the responsibilities a "traditional" life has. The only reason they beg on the streets is because they know they'll make reasonable money from doing it.

So please, explain to me why anyone should ever become homeless. I'd like to try and understand the other side of the debate.

 

In the United States, many of the homeless are mentally ill and/or substance abusers.

There are a few of the down-and-out mixed in with them but a small percentage of the whole of the problem. Some even choose to live in such a way.

 

As the relative of someone who is mentally ill and a substance abuser I can assure you it is not as simple as just showing up at a hospital and being given a place to live. Even if they commit themselves (which most won't because they are ill and honestly don't think anything is wrong with themselves) they often can't be kept in an institution for very long. And if you try to commit them against their will, it's even more difficult. Even if you succeed in getting court-ordered treatment, it's been my experience that under those circumstances rehabs/institutions will only hold someone for up to 30 days.

Then it's back to where ever they were living, or the street, where they are expected to continue to get voluntary treatment.

Yeah, right.

 

One of the legacies of the Reagan era was the de-institutionalizing of a great many of the nation's mentally ill, basically just sending them out into the streets, where they have remained pretty much ever since.

 

Both times, the underlying theme was that there is FREEDOM in it.

I can completely understand that, but you are basically saying you chose that lifestyle, rather than having it forced on yourself. I don't know what your situation is now, but I presume seeing as you are online that your fortunes have changed for the better - and I'm willing to bet it's because you took the time to straighten your life out.

TeeBee - the vast, vast minority of the homeless have serious mental issues, and I'd agree that they are the ones that are probably in the most need of help because they possibly don't fully understand their surroundings, or how to get things in society.

t's been my experience that under those circumstances rehabs/institutions will only hold someone for up to 30 days.

I can't speak for where you live, but here an institute or hospital are not allowed to release someone who doesn't have somewhere to go. As much as the state is stretched on these matters they always find *somewhere*, even if it's just a bed in a ward.

 

Couldn't it be argued that homelessness is both a choice and a result of circumstance? You made the choice to remain homeless, but circumstances made it so you are. Or somethuing along those lines.

 

Which is pretty interesting..

I assume when you say "squatting" that you mean you stayed at certain locations for a set amount of time, and then moved on.. (ie.."crashing in a friend's basement and such..)

It's interesting in the sense that human behavior still seeks out social support, even if it is alternate to what is commonly expected.

 

TeeBee - the vast, vast minority of the homeless have serious mental issues, and I'd agree that they are the ones that are probably in the most need of help because they possibly don't fully understand their surroundings, or how to get things in society.

I don't know about that. I think that the number of schizophrenics in the homeless population is pretty significant. I could be mistaken, but I know I've come across that stat before.

 

Something that's always disappointed me: when one of the many bums that "lives" in my area approaches me and asks for change, I offer them food instead. Nine times out of ten, guess what happens? They turn it down. They aren't truly needy. They're just BUMS--no wonder people are so reluctant to give anything to them.

 

It's very hard to get a job when you don't have an address. And honestly-would YOU hire a homeless person?

 

Sure.. But I think the point is that there are programs in place for those who want to work toward that goal.

I know the county run shelter system here operates on a phased system. A person can stay at a shelter for up to 30 days. During that time, programs that allow one to obtain a GED, or other basic vocational skills are offered.

Then, a person can move into rent-subsidized housing. Although I don't know for how long, at least its an address. Local businesses are also partnered in the program.

A lot of jobs are things like landscaping and stocking, but there are worse things in life than having to work a landscaping job in a rent subsidized apartment while one gets a GED.

However, I know they also have restrictions. A person can't just attend the GED program for 5 days, leave for 5, and then return. It's a commitment by both sides.

I don't think its perfect. Again, someone who is mentally ill might not even understand the procedure. But I do think it represents a possible restart.

 

It's very hard to get a job when you don't have an address. And honestly-would YOU hire a homeless person?

You could use a shelter's address, even if you don't stay there. They are happy to let you do that, and even help you complete application forums etc.

It probably won't be the best job in the world, but it's a job.

I think that the number of schizophrenics in the homeless population is pretty significant.

iirc there is a higher incidence of schizophrenia amoung the homeless community, but not severe enough to prevent them working or participating in "normal" society.

 

I have a cousin who lives by "hobo central" in Austin, and she's overheard enough conversations from them while walking out to make me wary of them. A lot of the ones she lives near have checks from relatives, insurance, etc. and such and have a nice amount of money to their names. Another incident had a friend of mine's father go out and buy a few burgers for a guy begging on the street, who then proceeded to scream at him for not giving him money and walked away. I don't give money anymore, which makes me feel guilty, but I'm a poor college kid who wants to not get scammed more than the university already scamms us.

On an amusing note, a guy that went here and graduated last year spent his senior year homeless to save on housing costs. He slept in the MSC (memorial student center), showered at the rec, kept his stuff in a locker there, and ate at the dining halls. He agreed to have an article done about him the last week of classes. The administration has since made sure that nobody sleeps in the MSC anymore.

 

iirc there is a higher incidence of schizophrenia amoung the homeless community, but not severe enough to prevent them working or participating in "normal" society

Well, without treatment, a schizophrenic simply cannot function in normal society (at least those with anything beyond very mild schizophrenia). Getting treatment can be difficult for anyone with the condition, and it gets increasingly more debilitating with the severity of the disease. For many, the best they can hope for is some sense of order while living with relatives or in an institution.

But, I suspect this is somewhat beside your point, or at least nothing more than a minor aspect of it.

 

Even if they use a shelter's address, tell me how many employers would be willing to hire someone who is homeless?

The problem became worse with the cutting of social services and closing down state hospitals. Didn't Reagan, he was gov. of CA do that? A lot of mentally ill individuals were just dumped out on the streets, with no support system, no help, etc.

Some are people who have been kicked out of their homes, for whatever-teenage runaways, kids who were disowned because they were gay, or because they were abused, etc.

Until you walk a mile in their shoes, don't assume that everyone who is homeless is that way because they CHOOSE to sleep on the streets.

 

As has been mentioned earlier, most mentally ill people don't recognize themselves as mentally ill. Secondly, you only established how someone can becoem poor as a result of their own actions. That's fairly obvious. But that doesn't mean that they are choosing, each and every day, to continue to be poor.

 

Even if they use a shelter's address, tell me how many employers would be willing to hire someone who is homeless?

The could actually be living in the shelter.

A lot of mentally ill individuals were just dumped out on the streets, with no support system, no help, etc.

I don't know the specifics of that incident, but I know in this country they are not allowed to do that. You can never be thrown out of a hospital.



However, as I've stated, these people really make up a very small proportion of the total homeless, and I'm absolutely support giving the genuinely sick the help and support they need. I suppose really, my thread is more directed that those who are not sick, and are homeless.

Some are people who have been kicked out of their homes, for whatever-teenage runaways, kids who were disowned because they were gay, or because they were abused, etc.

Running away is still a choice. With these people it's clearly a better choice than staying at home, but a choice nevertheless. If they were abused in any way they should report to the authorities - they have people who directly help with these situations. In the case of an underage child a parent cannot throw them out of the house - well, they *can* and *do*, however these children are taken into care.

Over the age of 18 they should be doing something that would offer alternative accomodation - ie be at University or have a fulltime job. Again, our situations differ in that University education here is free (let's not debate top-up charges in this thread), and general loans are provided for accomodation etc.

don't assume that everyone who is homeless is that way because they CHOOSE to sleep on the streets.

I'm certainly not assuming that *everyone* does choose - just the vast, vast majority. Guinastasia you are focussing on the minority, and I'd really like to get to the bottom of why the majority choose to be homeless. MyKe1138 has already given us a frank story of their choice to live homeless to avoid responsibility, and I honestly think that is at the root o f the majority of homeless people.

 

The problem became worse with the cutting of social services and closing down state hospitals. Didn't Reagan, he was gov. of CA do that? A lot of mentally ill individuals were just dumped out on the streets, with no support system, no help, etc.


Maybe the issue could be more properly examined if we actually looked at valid statistics, instead of repeating political sound bites..

How many people were "dumped into the streets?"

What did such a program entail?

Where any alternatives enacted in place of them?

I know in IL, similiar to CA, the large state run institutions were closed down, but replaced with smaller, more manageable county services. This was done in order to be more efficient with resources.

I don't have actual numbers, and I'm sure it wasn't a one for one switch, but the fact that some large hospitals were closed down, doesn't automatically mean nothing was put in their place.

 

Do you have a cite for your assertations that people are mostly homeless because they choose to be?

 

Guinastasia posted on 4/25/05 9:58am

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Do you have a cite for your assertations that people are mostly homeless because they choose to be?


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That's my belief because no-one has ever been able to suggest otherwise.

 

He's stating the obvious here.

It's true that we cannot control what happens to us in life, but it's always our choice on how we will react to the situations we are in.