How could Obi-wan not realize that the clones were the enemy?

I ask this question because Jango was the host of the Army and Obi-wan should have known that judgeing by the fact he battle Jango on Kamino and was the one who tried to kill Padme.

I know the Army was for the Republic but the Jedi should of been more Aware that they were the host of Jango and they may have avoided the Order 66. Commander cody looked like Jango and it seemed like Obi-Wan did not noticed or cared. Where the Jedi Brainless?

 

The Clones however were genetically engineered to be more docile and less independant than Jango. I'm sure that Obi-Wan was aware that Cody looked just like Jango, but he would given that he's a clone.

The Clones also weren't the enemy in and of themselves, they were merely tools of the Sith.

 

The clones did as they were told. They were robots. You'd think that Cody wouldn't turn on Kenobi, but the clones were made that way. Palpatine was their master. They obeyed without question as they were made to do.

 

I know that, but what trying to point out is that the jedi should have been more Aware about the Clones.

 

Jango Fett is just a gun for hire. Its not so much that he's a good guy or a bad guy, he just does the job he is paid to do. OK, Obi-Wan tracks him to Kamino because he is doing a bad thing in trying to kill Padme (remember nobody realise's at this point that Jango is connected to the CIS) but that doesn't mean a Jedi couldn't have hired him for the Clone Army at an earlier date. Jango is a morally ambiguous character and would be just as likely to work for the good guys as he is to work for the work the bad guys.

However, when they realised Jango was connected to Count Dooku and the CIS, of course they should have been wary of the Clones, but by then Palpatine had forced their hand, because he had already been given Emergency Powers by the Senate and had declared he would create an army for the Republic. With the Sepratist's building their war supplies the Jedi really couldn't do anything other than head to the battle field with the Clones. Events kinda caught the Jedi up, before they could ask many questions. I'm sure the plan was to continue the investigation into who ordered the Clone Army after the Clone War, but by then, it was far too late. Of course, Jango Fett's death didn't help matters, because the Jedi couldn't even question him....

They should have been more careful, but duty came before self-preservation and the Jedi Knights ultimately payed the price for this.

 

What was there to be aware of? The jedi knew that Palpatine controlled them. They just didn't think he'd be able to turn them so fast. Obviously, Order 66 was in place for some time, and the clones were all prepared to 'execute' it.

 

I know that, but what trying to point out is that the jedi should have been more Aware about the Clones.




They all look exactly alike. After a little while, he would tend to forget all about Jango.

 

Just because they're clones of Jango doesn't man they are Jango.
I think the question sould be more: Why should Obi-Wan have been wary of them just because they were Jango's clones?
If the Kaminoans hated the Jedi, then there'd be cause for alarm.

 

i would have been worried about them because the dialogue in AotC means they didn't know who ordered them. The Kaminoans said it was Syfo-Dias, but when he talks to Mace and Yoda it is clear he was dead when he supposedly ordered the Clones.

They were insane to trust the clones, and desperate to use them at all.

I reconcile this in my mind because they must have started out desperate, yoda clearly was when he invaded Geonosis and started the clone wars, further it is natural that the Jedi would grow to trust them after going into battle with them for years.

But initially there should have been a much better investigation done before using them. I imagine Palpantine prevented that through political maneuvering based on the theory that the Republic was at stake.

 

Exactly, I am in 100% agreement with this; just what exactly did they need to be aware of? The Clones were fighting for the republic for years, and the Jedi had NO idea that Palpatine was Sidious, and that he was in control of everything. That is why the Jedi looked so surprised when they were being killed off during Order 66.











~*~*~*Anakin_Darth~*~*~*

 

The Jedi had no reason to distrust them, since their investigation into the matter yeilded nothing sinister about them. From all appearences, it looked like Sifo-Dyas has placed the order prior to his death. That he had forknowledge of the dark times and tried to prevent it, in a rather unorthadox method.

As to trusting them, there's no reason not to. Jango, as noted, is a hired gun. He was hired for one job and then hired for another. It happens in real life.

 

Ahh, yes. The old Jango Fett debate.

Personally I don't buy the "hired gun" argument. I mean, he obviously went to great pains to keep the Kamino operation a secret, and even decided to flee the planet the moment Obi-Wan showed up. What kind of guy just runs off like that? Doesn't he report to someone? Jango even told Obi-Wan himself that he worked for "Tyrannus". Even if the Jedi had no idea that Tyrannus was Dooku, the cloning operation is obviously very important and it would only make sense that Jango would run off to his superiors rather than going off to a new job.

 

Jango was in league with Tyranus and the separatists. That's no secret. He "ran off" so that he wouldn't be abducted by Kenobi and held hostage by the council for questioning. This was a monetary move from him, though. Make no mistake about that. Like Palpatine, he was only concerned for the plot as a whole to survive due to his stake in it. No Clone Wars, no healthy retirement for Jango. Too bad he forgot about the whole head-in-tact thing!!!

 

I'm with Alpha-Red and i completely dissagree here with Sinister.

They had every reason not to trust them when Kenobi found them in AotC.

The jedi have only the Kaminoans word for the claim this army is for the republic, they have no idea who ordered them (sifo-dias was already dead), they have no idea who paid for them.

I take Kenobi at his word, he lies to the Kaminoans and tells them Sifo-dias was killed after he ordered the clones, immediately contacts the Temple and tells Mace and Yoda that they say the army was ordered by him but "i was under the impression he had been killed before that".

The worried looks and complete lack of correcting Kenobi by Mace and Yoda who obviously recognize the name implies on screen that Kenobi is right.

The most likely conclussion at that moment is that Sifo's killer ordered the clones and that alone would be reason enough to worry about them.

I do agree if we fast forward to the RotS they have no reason to doubt the clones anymore.

After more than 3 years of going into battle with them the trust level is going to be very high, there was no reason for the jedi to think they would ever turn on them by then.

if the jedi hadn't been so desperate that Yoda grabed the army in what on screen appears to be great haste and used the clones immediately to invade Geonosis things might have been different.

Another reason that the Jedi should not have trusted the clones, as soon as they saw Jengo with the seperatists on Geonosis they knew the template worked for the other side.

Yes he's a mercinary but playing both sides like that at the same time gets a mercenary killed, it's not smart, not good business.

At no time did i get the impression that Jengo was a fool, in order to make this all work though the Jedi had to think he was one.

 

But the jedi don't have any choice. Palpatine has crafted his rise brilliantly. At this stage in the game, they have ALREADY LOST. They are forced to accept the Clones if they wish to fend off the separatists and trade federation. Otherwise the Republic, and possibly the jedi, will fall.

 

good point.

don't know what to suggest but obviously what htey did do didn't work out well.

 

They were tricked. That's all. The Jedi are like the police in our society. But all the police in the U.S. could be killed off or forced into hiding if the goverment suddenly became corrupt and decided that's what they wanted. Same kind of thing.

 

Where did Obi-wan say that Jango worked for Tyranus? Hmmm...? I heard no such thing in the film or in the script. If Jango was taking great pains to hide the operation, why did he use a Kamino saber dart? It wasn't that big a secert. Jango was being played. And Jango fled because he's wanted as an accessory to attempted murder of a Republic Senator.

And as I pointed out, the Jedi investigated the nature of the order and who placed the order. In the end, the documents all checked out as being truthful. Obi-wan had already dismissed the Kaminoans of being conspirators. Jango was their last clue to finding out who this mysterious Tyranus person is. But they never find out in the film and the novelization, Obi-wan does, but doesn't make the connection.

 

Obi Wan is a good tracker to stay with Jango Fett.

 

my point, and you made it for me was that they didn't make the connection.

i didn't say kenobi said jengo worked for tyranus, i implied the jedi knew it. at least kenobi knew it and if it slipped his mind and he didn't pass it along well then he's not as good with details as i think he is. that is possible.

in the films there are wide open questions of who ordered the clones, who paid for an authorized them and why.

in the films the jedi seem to blindly over look all of that rather quickly out of desperation.

this is a mistake that cost them in the end.

that's the extent of my point, that the jedi should have showed even more suspicion in the begining, but i understand why they trusted the clones after years of going into battle with them.

 

"Anakin was fooled by a lie, we all were." Obi-Wan to Padme (ROTS)


"The Darkside clouds everything"

 

It was pretty foolish of the Jedi to take possession of an army that was created in the spitting image of the guy who is trying to kill a Senator, who also happens to be working for the head of the Seperatist movement, who later turns out to be a Sith Lord, who instigates a war against the Jedi and the Republic, the only answer to which is using the "Jango" army that pops up overnight.

If a thing looks to good to be true, it usually is.

 

Actually, Jango worked for Nute as Obi-wan states in his report to Coruscant. Thus he did not make a connection. As to why Jango was chosen, given that he is considered a good warrior and bounty hunter, it makes sense that you go for the best. Especially if you believe that a Jedi placed the order.

 

Very good analysis and I agree with everything you've put up there save the last: The Jedi didn't put duty before self-preservation. They put self-preservation before duty. While it was not their duty to fight in the Clone Wars (being, as Mace said in AotC, keepers of peace not soldiers), it was their duty to investigate where this Trojan horse came from.

Obi-Wan did know that Jango had been hired by a Tyrannus. What I've never discovered is if the Jedi knew that Darth Tyrannus was Count Dooku?s Sith name.

 

Where did Obi-wan say that Jango worked for Tyranus? Hmmm...? I heard no such thing in the film or in the script.


Obi-Wan had learned from Jango that a man named Tyrannus had recruited him for the clone stint:

OBI-WAN: (continuing) Ever made your way as far into the interior as Coruscant?
JANGO: Once or twice.
OBI-WAN: Recently?
JANGO: (eyes Obi-Wan carefully) Possibly...
OBI-WAN: Then you must know Master Sido- Dyas?
JANGO: Boba, close the door.
BOBA FETT moves to close the bedroom door. JANGO FETT smiles thinly at OBI-WAN.
JANGO: (continuing) Master who?
OBI-WAN: Sido-Dyas. Isn?t he the Jedi who hired you for this job?
JANGO: Never heard of him.
OBI-WAN: Really...
JANGO: I was recuited by a man called Tyranus on one of the moons of Bogden.