So Palpatine says that every Jedi was an enemy of the Republic, including Obi Wan. But before Anakin and Obi Wan's fight, Anakin said: "If you're not with me, then you're my enemy." Meaning that at first, Anakin would have let Obi Wan live if Obi Wan would have agreed to join the Empire. So what was really going to happen to Obi Wan?
There is also the moment when Anakin speaks to Padme after the Temple raid... "My loyalties lie with the Chancellor. And with the Senate. And with you." "What about Obi-Wan?" "I don't know. Many Jedi have been killed. We can only hope he has remained loyal to the Chancellor." He sounds pretty dark saying it, but there is a definite hint there that he hopes he doesn't have to kill Obi-Wan himself. I think he actually believed maybe Obi-Wan would "repent" and join him. But when he sees Obi-Wan on Mustafar and falsely believes Padme and Obi-Wan have been conspiring against him this kind of goes out the window. He still tries to argue with Obi-Wan, and then confirms they are enemies, like you said. Nevertheless, I think there was perhaps still a small hope that they could be reconciled until the end of the fight, where Obi-Wan dismembers Anakin. I think he had nothing but hate for Obi-Wan now, and blames the Jedi and Obi-Wan pretty much completely for everything that happened. In ANH he seems pretty proud that Obi-Wan is no more.
In the novel doesn't Anakin tell Obi-Wan he'll leave him alone if he goes away? I could be completely wrong. I just think I read that somewhere. The cry of agony you hear from Anakin as he flips towards Obi-Wan and Obi-Wan slices his body up is so rewarding.
Yup: In the Force, Anakin burned like a fusion torch. “You turned her against me.” Obi-Wan looked at the best friend he had ever had. “You did that yourself,” he said sadly. “I’ll give you a chance, Obi-Wan. For old times’ sake. Walk away.” “If only I could.” “Go some place out of the way. Retire. Meditate. That’s what you like, isn’t it? You don’t have to fight for peace anymore. Peace is here. My Empire is peace.” “Your Empire? It will never have peace. It was founded on treachery and innocent blood.” “Don’t make me kill you, Obi-Wan. If you are not with me, you are against me.” “Only Sith deal in absolutes, Anakin. The truth is never black and white.” He rose, spreading empty hands. “Let me take Padmé to a medcenter. She’s hurt, Anakin. She needs medical attention.” “She stays.” “Anakin—” “You don’t get to take her anywhere. You don’t get to touch her. She’s mine, do you understand? It’s your fault, all of it—you made her betray me!” “Anakin—” Anakin’s hand sprouted a bar of blue plasma. Obi-Wan sighed. He brought out his own lightsaber and angled it before him. “Then I will do what I must.” “You’ll try,” Anakin said, and leapt. Obi-Wan met him in the air. Blue blades crossed, and the volcano above echoed their lightning with a shout of fire.
Anakin's "We can only hope he (Obi-Wan) stayed loyal" came across to me as something he didn't believe, but was saying to "reassure" Padme.
Wow, that is great. Really great. I wish they would have kept that dialogue in the movie and cut some of the light saber fight instead.
In the book "Darth Vader: Rise of the Dark Lord" Anakin has many thoughts regarding Obi wan. Mostly along the lines of Obi Wan was not a bad guy, just misguided. Brainwashed by the Jedi. They could have went their separate ways. Or obi wan should have realised that what Anakin had done was right in order to bring peace. The Vader side of him hated what obi wan had done to him on mustafar by leaving him to die. Turning Padme against him. I think over time Vader realised that the emporer minipulated him all along and maybe regretted his decisions towards the end but stayed at the emporors side anyway in order to become more powerful with the force
I think overtime Vader became more and more numb and forgot about his memories with Obi-Wan as he worked with the Emperor. So by the time of ANH, when it came time to have a duel with him-Vader had no trouble slicing him down
I think Darth Vader now hates Obi Wan. He was not loving too much Obi Wan from since he was a Jedi Padwan,remember when he tells that Obi Wan is helding him back.
I never agree with this interpretation of Anakin in AOTC. Anakin loved Obi-Wan, and considered him like a father. He lashed out in a moment of pain after not being able to save his mom and blamed Obi-Wan for a second. Padme even called him out on that because she didn't think that was the real reason. The three people Anakin loved best were Padme, Obi-Wan, and Palpatine. The difference was only one of those people was manipulating and grooming him.
Yes,but sadly he loved Palpatine most. I think he was considering Obi Wan as an older brother and Palpatine as a father.
You think? That's not how I saw it. Anakin loved Padme the most, just dreams of losing her sent him in a psychotic break. Palpatine knew that his biggest competition was Obi-Wan which is why he manipulated the situation to get Obi-Wan sent to Utapau. He needed Anakin without his brother in order to turn him. I don't think Palpatine was the one he was most loyal to, but he was the smartest and planned better.
I could be wrong about this, but the overwhelming impression I got from the movies was that Anakin definitely took Obi-Wan off his Jedi holiday greeting card list.
I "sorta" disagree. I think what we got told us everything even more than this. Anakin simply choked his wife and didn't even treat her or say anything afterwards about her. It shows more of his insanity.
That's great & is even better than the movie. I like how Anakin ignited his lightsaber first. Never liked how Obi-Wan "draws his sword" before Anakin.
OBI-WAN: Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes. I will do what I must. (ignites his lightsaber) ANAKIN: You will try. Interesting wordplay on Yoda's "Do...or do not. There is no try."
Interesting. There is also a link to AOTC there. Yoda's "There is no try." can be a direct response to Anakin saying "I try, Master." and the following lightsaber discussion can foreshadow Anakin and Obi-Wan's two future fights to the death. ANAKIN She went into the club, Master. OBI-WAN Patience. Use the force. Think. OBI-WAN hands ANAKIN the lightsaber. OBI-WAN (continuing) Here. Next time try not to lose it. ANAKIN Sorry, Master. OBI-WAN This weapon is your life! ANAKIN I try, Master. INT. NIGHTCLUB - NIGHT OBI-WAN and ANAKIN enter the nightclub bar, and everyone stares at them OBI-WAN Why do I think you are going to be the death of me?!
Funny that Obi-Wan went in there with the intention of killing Anakin, whereas Anakin was trying to give himself every excuse not to kill Obi-Wan. Anakin wasn't beyond reason, but he had already done too much damage to be given the benefit of the doubt by the Jedi.
I agree with this. I also think that both Anakin and Obi-Wan were emotionally distraught to the point where they both lost much of their ability to think reasonably. Anakin and Obi-Wan fought each other while both under the impression that they were fighting for their respective "causes"-- Obi-Wan for the Jedi Order, and Anakin for his quest for the power to save Padme from death. Even though they fought under that pretense, I think it was also really obvious that they were fighting each other because they both were really emotionally wounded by the other. They were brothers, but Obi-Wan absolutely intended to end Anakin in order to set the galaxy back in order. After Obi-Wan left Anakin to burn on Mustafar, I think Anakin came to grips with the idea that everyone he once thought he knew had changed (Anakin changed too, of course, but Anakin shouldn't be the only one who's viewed as having changed-- Obi-Wan, Padme, and many others also did their fair share of changing over the course of ROTS) and that now, Palpatine/Sidious was the only person left that he could trust. I think Anakin became resolute that he would never forgive Obi-Wan for interfering and foiling his chance to save Padme, and also for his (false) belief that Obi-Wan had turned Padme against him. I absolutely think Anakin/Darth Vader had come to hate Obi-Wan, and because there wasn't any reconciliation, that hatred continued well past when DV killed Obi-Wan.
Whatever Anakin felt for Obi-Wan, he was incapable of being dispassionate or unattached to him. I think of that as love in a way. Anakin always loved Obi-Wan, even as it fueled his hatred of him. I liken it to an adult child who has a fraught relationship with a sibling or a parent. No matter how twisted and tragic it is, the well of emotion comes from the same place. The water just turned from clear to black is all.
Agree. Even in ANH he is searching for an approval by Obi Wan (well, in a twisted way, of course). He said to him: now I'm the master. So, he hates him, but in the same time he tries to prove his abilities and powers as every apprentice does if he ever has failed in a duel with his master. corinthia I agree but I think Anakin never really believed that Padme betrayed him. Maybe he hates Obi Wan twice for what happened in Mustafar, but I think he never blames Padme for nothing (except in that moment when he choked her, of course).
HevyDevy Haha I always think that when watching that scene. Its like Obi Wan saw into the future but at the same time he didn't lol
Yes, but additionally the apparent symbolism in the line "This weapon is your life." is a little more subtle, I had a theory it is arguably a recurring theme Lucas attempted; - Obi-Wan symbolically becomes a Jedi by pulling his fallen Master Qui-Gon's saber to him and killing Maul. - Anakin and Obi-Wan are both defeated by Dooku using the same saber in AOTC. Obi-Wan throws Anakin his saber, and Anakin fights with two sabers before the green is sliced in half, and Anakin loses his arm with the same blue saber his Master lost with. Perhaps a symbol of Anakin's lost potential and a hint at Obi-Wan handing down his failure (having never trained Anakin as successfully as he does Luke in the next trilogy). Trivially, Qui-Gon lectures Obi-Wan about Obi-Wan short-circuiting his saber in the water in the TPM script, something Obi-Wan of course will be lecturing Anakin on similarly several times in AOTC. - When Obi-Wan defeats Anakin on Mustafar he tellingly "takes Anakin's soul" away metaphorically in the form of his lost apprentice's lightsaber. "This weapon is your life" indeed. - Luke takes up his father's path as a Jedi when Obi-Wan reminisces to him half-truths about Anakin and hands down Anakin's old saber. Luke wants to be a Jedi like the father he never knew. - Then there is a significant bit of symbolism that sort of originated this theory for me. Luke fights the man who killed Obi-Wan and that he believes killed his father, but when Luke is dismembered by Vader he finds out Vader and his father are one in the same. Luke's perceived image of his father, and a piece of Luke's innocence, is lost along with Anakin's own old saber. - In ROTJ Luke has built his own saber as a symbol of becoming his own man, a Jedi, and being hopefully not doomed to follow his father's path. But when Vader pushes him too far at the film's climax he almost kills his father, until he notices through their robotic hands that he and Vader aren't all that different, and only by acknowledging this darkness in himself can Luke move past it and truly surpass his father by becoming a true Jedi. He throws away his saber in defiance of the Emperor (a statement neither Obi-Wan, Mace, nor Yoda make in the PT), but now defenseless, Luke is prey to the Emperor's lightning attack. However, Luke's selfless gesture reminds Anakin of who he used to be, and Anakin returns to save Luke's life and end the Sith's reign. It's pretty interesting that Obi-Wan is made a Jedi when he uses wise "father" figure's Jedi saber to kill a Sith, yet Luke perhaps surpasses the PT Jedi generally when he realises that by fighting he has lost before he has begun.
