How did Palpatine know about Padme's fate?

When Palpatine is convincing Anakin to become his apprentice he mentions the darkside could help him save the people he loves - including the power to save Padme.

How did he know about Anakin's vision of Padme? Is there an instance in the novelisation or somewhere where Anakin tells him about the dream or is this an instance of Palpatine's command over the powers of the darkside to know such things?

I remember when I first saw the film I automatically thought that Palpatine knew without being told by Anakin.

 

Combination of using the Force and perhaps information from his own intelligence services regarding their domestic situation, I imagine.

It is odd, though, it almost comes across in the film as if Palpatine has simply been reading Anakin's mind all along. I'm not sure if he's meant to be quite that powerful.

 

Or perhaps he didn't know and said what was most likely to break Anakin emotionally.

 

^^^
Basically a gamble based on an educated guess, along with the ability to read Anakin's emotions. One of the deleted scenes adds weight to this, he mentions rumours of Padme being romantically involved with a well-known Jedi - clearly fishing for a reaction (it's also connected to the discarded notion of Anakin being jealous of any sort of friendship between Padme & Obi-Wan).

 

There was a scene featuring all 3 set just prior to Palpatine's revelation that ended up on the cutting floor, of course. Its more than probable Palpatine sensed there she was a source of Anakin's concern. And he knows about the visions Anakin had about his mother. So for me, its likely a combination of intelligence and intuition. Remember how Vader senses Luke's fears about his Sister in ROTJ. Its much the same as that I think.

 

That's true, I hadn't made the connection that Anakin, as Vader, was able to sense Luke had a twin sister so it's possible Palpatine used the same technique. He could have been referring to Anakin's fear of loss as evidenced by what happened to his mother. When he mentioned saving the one Anakin loved from dying Anakin may have thought of Padme thus giving Palpatine the emotional leaverage he needed to gain his allegiance.

 

Some have suggested that Palpatine "sent" the visions to Anakin in the first place. I'm not saying I believe that, but it's still an interesting idea.

 

While it would not surprise me if Palpidious had sent Anakin the vision in the first place, given that he knew about Anakin's visions of his mother...I think this is the best explanation.

 

Palpatine could have the A/P love shack bugged.

 

If Palpatine knew Anakin had had visions of his mother dying, it's more likely he realised he didn't have to send him any visions about Padme, just mess with his head in conversation. Palpatine strikes me as someone who favours a light touch whenever possible.
The dialogue regarding Count Dooku arranging Shmi's death & Palpatine's 'parentage' of Anakin was excised from ROTS with good cause - they're plot twists that are way too overt & melodramatic. I'm not sure if it was ever considered by GL that Palps sent Anakin the visions of Padme, but I'd lump the idea in the same sort of boat.

So yeah, intelligence & intuition, with more than a little bit of steroid-type acceleration from the Force.

 

Palpatine watched the Mortis trilogy,


then,


everything proceeded as he planned.

 

So when Palpy told Anakin he had the power to save the one he loved, Palpy was referring to Ahsoka?

 

(rimshot)

 

I said he watched the TRILOGY, not 2/3 of it.

Padme gets choked in the smoke on Friday.
And Palpatine learns which mask he will grab.

 

I think it's deeper than that. I think Palpy created a self-fulfilling prophecy.

First, I think that Palpy was the one who arranged Anakin's mother's death. I think he bought off the Tusken raiders somehow to kidnap her. I also think he planted the dreams about her death in Anakin's mind. I think he did this all to cause Anakin pain and rage, and to cause him to start sliding towards the dark side.

Then with Padme, he did a variation on that theme. He planted the dreams about Padme's death in Anakin's mind, which set off the chain of events that caused his fall to the dark side, which ended up with her dying. I don't think Padme would have died in childbirth at all if not for Palps. I think it was one big set-up right from the start.

How exactly he pulled that all off is a mystery I still haven't pieced together, bit hey - the Force is strong in that one.

 

Yeah it's hinted in the movies that Jedi/Sith can read thoughts. Vader read Luke's thoughts in ROTJ, "your thoughts dwell on your...sister. So, you have a twin sister". The conehead Jedi read Anakin's thoughts in TPM, "your thoughts dwell on your mother".

In ROTS right after Dooku's decapitation, Palps said "he cut off your arm and you wanted revenge. It's not the first time. Remember what you told me about your mother? And the sand people?"

So in the end of ROTS it goes something like:
Vader: Where is Padme? Is she safe? Is she all right?
Palp: It seems in your anger you killed her.
Vader: I killed her? No. She was alive. I felt it!

It's unclear whether Palp actually knew she was dead. It's also unclear if Vader simply believed him, or if he ignored Palp and tried to sense her himself but after a few seconds realized she was truly dead because her life force was zero. But here is what I believed happened:

After getting choked she lost the will to live, but hypothetically if Anakin was with her through the birth I think she would have stayed alive. Palp didn't say that line as a result of reading his thoughts, the reason being Vader assumed she was still alive since he sensed her earlier. But just because it was Anakin's fault she died, it doesn't mean Palp truly knew that. Therefore I believe the Padme burial occurred right before Vader arose in his completed suit. Her belly appeared to look big, but that was a ploy to convince any secret empire watchers that her lone kid did not survive. Finally the watcher informed Palp of her death. When he rose up, Anakin must have thought "I hope she is all right, I know I did a bad thing by choking her, but I sensed her being alive after that incident but before my suit got completed. So assuming she is still alive, let me just ask this old fart next to me if he knows anything." So I would also add that there was a brief moment in time when he didn't try to sense her due to the pain of going through surgery.

 

The answer is simple: he's Palpatine. In the prequels, he knows everything, and the Jedi know nothing.

 

I could be mistaken but didn't every Jedi/Sith vision turn out to be true? TESB Luke forsaw Han Leia and co in pain on Cloud City, the emperor forsaw Luke destroying him, Anakin saw his mother's pain, Padme's death, and Obi-Wan being next to her in child birth. "The dark side of the force surrounds the chancellor" means the Jedi couldn't read Palp's thoughts in the PT. I don't believe the Sith can read each other's thoughts either since they're surrounded by the barrier themselves. Interestingly, Yoda stated "Clouded this boy's future is..." in TPM.

TESB Emperor told Vader of his vision in order to have him kill Luke to stop it from really happening. The same pattern occurred to ROTS Anakin in that in trying to prevent their visions, they're actually causing it to take place.

Going back to the PT, let's take a look at the instances where it appears some minds were read.

AOTC Palp finished Padme's sentence:
Padme: I don't believe --
Palp: the situation is that serious. Oh but I do, senator...
which caused Yoda to look at him, probably thinking "how did he know what she was going to say?"

Before I talk about ROTS, I just realized that when Vader read Luke's thoughts and the Jedi Council read little Ani's thoughts, Luke and Ani didn't become Jedis yet. Perhaps the Jedi/Sith can only read non-jedi/sith minds. This does not conflict with sensing each other's presence/situation though, "I sense Count Dooku", "I sense a trap", "I sense Lord Vader is in danger."

The "Palp is the Sith Lord" revelation scene confirms he knew about Anakin's vision of Padme's death. The opera scene does not. How would Palp know about Anakin's vision if he didn't tell anyone? Well he read Padme's mind. Anakin earlier told Padme she will die in childbirth. Afterwards, Palp got a whiff of her thoughts and there you go. So Anakin told Palp that he killed the raiders for kidnapping his mother, but Palp had to read Padme's mind to see that Anakin has been having visions of Padme's death.

This mind reading limitation idea is partly why I believe Palp did not plant any visions. Also, the very idea of planting something in someone's brain, manipulating their thoughts, falls under the category of "extreme force power", if you will, which includes creating life and preventing/cheating death. We don't know if any of those powers really exist, but we do know that you can become a force ghost. Now is it possible to learn that power? Yes, but not from a Sith.

 

Now is it possible to learn that power? Yes, but not from a Sith.

What makes you say that? Just because we never see it done, doesn't mean it can't be done.

 

Although I'm not sure of this one, I've always thought that it was at least possible that Palpaine actually somehow killed Padme with some kind of long-distance Force power somehow. Maybe and maybe not.

 

The deleted scenes and the novelisation deal with this somewhat....in the deleted scenes Palpatine instigates Anakin by mentioning rumors that Padme is pregnant for a Jedi based off his "reports"....and I do think Lucas dropped the ball on displaying how powerful Sidious actually is...in Sidious' duel with the 4 Jedi in his office he's supposed to be overwhelming them with speed, it just doesn't come acroos that way upon viewing...another testament to Darth Sidious' power is the fact that he speaks to Anakin via telepathy while he was confined to the council chambers

 

Yup.

The Dark Side allows him to see most everything even bofre they happen.

He would have sensed it through the Force.

 

do people seriously believe Palpy is THAT attuned to send dreams to people, like a biblical vision?

I wonder then why he waited so long to take over the universe and destroy the Jedi with force knowledge of that extent, why not just plant visions to all the Jedi, having them believe they are a primitive life form, with the intelligence of Jar Jar? would have been far more easier.

 

Qui-Gon said in the ROTS novel that the Sith can't achieve it.

 

I could be mistaken but didn't every Jedi/Sith vision turn out to be true?


Sure, but Anakin's particular vision may well have been avoidable; everything happens because of things he does. None of Luke's visions are directly because of his actions-hell, a random hallway collapsing on Echo Base and forcing Leia to go with Han to the Falcon is what ultimately leads to his TESB visions; it had nothing to do directly with Luke beyond his being there and Leia's refusal to leave before it was too late.

Anakin, on the other hand, very definitely fulfilled his own prophecy in ROTS. He searches out forbidden knowledge from the Sith, then converts to their ways. This leads to him being sent to Mustafar and Order 66 being executed, and Padme and Obi-Wan follow him as a result. If Anakin hadn't converted to the Dark Side, he never would have assaulted Padme and she wouldn't have died as a result of that. She'd have given birth on Coruscant without will to live/medical complications.