How does Darth Krayt compare to Sith of the past?

I have to say that I am a convert to the Darth Krayt fan club, his list of achievements is now getting very impressive. He created his own Sith Order, he has managed to live far far beyond his natural lifespan, he has matched Sidious by becoming Emperor, he has control over the minds of hundreds if not thousands of other force users (the likes of Stryfe and Talon may not be top rank force users, but they are Jedi Knight level, and for him to have such power over their minds is very impressive), and he has now seemingly cheated death with his 'rebirth'. If he now survives Legacy, and then crushes Wyyrlok and regains control of the One Sith, I think all his achievements must now rank him at the very top level of Sith.

 

The big issue is Krayt is such a pointless brute. He had the galaxy in the palm of his hand and he proceeds then to offend it all with the event at Mon Calamari.

 

Bad guys are supposed to offend the galaxy though and be, you know, a bad guy. Legacy would have been very different if Darth Krayt was a lovable rogue who just happened to have a dad day once in a while.

 

There is a diffrence between being a badguy and being stupid.

You have a force of millions, or hundreds of millions, to control population of Trillions...public relations freaking matter. If you cant ride the wave you get rolled over by it.

their is a big diffrence between doing something for the Evlulz in some place where you can cover it up is "Badguyish" doing something for the Evlulz on television is just stupid.

 

"How does Darth Krayt compare to Sith of the past?"

He doesn't

 

Krayt is powerful, but he is NOTHING compared to Vader or Palpatine.

And he does NOT know how to scheme. First of all, Palpatine knew he would have usurpers throughout his Empire. So what did he do? He adhered to the Rule of Two and made sure everyone was one notch less powerful than him. On the other hand, Krayt commanded hundreds of Sith and did nothing about the overly-ambitious Moffs in the Empire.

My point: Krayt had great ideas but was not able to follow through on them, making him inferior to most Sith that came before him.

 

?

He schemed for over 100 years, creating a new Sith Order in the thousands by himself. He then framed the Yuuzhan Vong, turned the Galactic Alliance against itself, and the Fel Empire against the GA/Jedi/Vong. Then usurped Roan Fel's throne, and controlled the Moffs and GA bureaucracy.

The Moffs are also not a big problem for Krayt, and the only Sith to betray Krayt has been Wyyrlok. And now Wyyrlok looks like he pooped his pants after realizing Krayt's body is missing, not even knowing yet that Krayt is alive/reborn/immortal.

I think Krayt is right up there with Palpatine as one of the greats.

 

Mmm, no. Palpatine's victory was so complete that nobody opposed him for the next two decades-not because of fear, but because nobody wanted to; he was one of the good guys as far as the galaxy was concerned. Heck, even after twenty years of brutality, the galaxy was still willing to believe he was basically benevolent, as both the X-Wing novels and Shadows Of Mindor point out. Krayt hasn't managed to pull the wool over the galaxy's eyes to anything like that extent.

 

If you think about it, I'm increasingly of the mind that Palpatine is the worst Sith of all time. That's actually why he was so successful.

1. He threw the Rule of Two out the door by creating hundreds of Dark Side minions.

2. He killed his master in his sleep, forbidden by Darth Bane.

3. He studied the Jedi arts.

4. He was the calmest individual in the galaxy after Yoda.

5. He wasn't particularly passionate.

6. He brought peace to the galaxy through military autocracy.

7. He wasn't at all interested in breaking any chains or using the Force to free himself.

In a bizarre way, he was a lot more like a Jedi than a Sith.

 

Yeah, Palpatine, in his way, was a Jedi who just took the Jedi focus on peace and stability to it's far-right conclusion that the Jedi ought to be in charge-you can especially see this in the descriptions of his books in the DESB-particularly "the weakness of inferiors".

Palpatine reached the logical conclusion of the Sith, too-if the Sith are all about power to oneself, why the hell should he care about the Sith as an Order? That's the biggest problem with Bane's precepts, IMO-they're ultimately self-limiting. Palpatine understood this, but simply did not care. He'd won; I doubt he saw any utility for much of Bane's dogma.

Although the early post-ROTS webcomics illustrates, I think, that he does understand the usefulness of the Rule Of Two when he orders Vader to start training the Inquisitors; he's very specific that Vader is not training apprentices that will eventually become Masters; he says "you are making extensions of your will."

 

Hm, yeah, Palpatine sorta followed the Rule of Two, with Maul then Anakin (not counting Dooku since he was mainly just a stand-in until Anakin matured and pawn to lead the Confederacy), but... well, he's a Sith, so what's important is power, and he accumulated some of the most power in galactic history. He didn't just conquer the galaxy, he twisted the Republic into his Empire and they cheered when he did it.

Although part of why nobody opposed Palpatine was he had also wrecked the galaxy with the Clone Wars and had overwhelming military power. Some Senators knew how evil Palpatine was, but it took them years to build up forces. Well, that and for a convenient rallying point to show up, but I try not to think too much about a certain since it just makes everyone look stupid.

Now, as for the topic title- well, Krayt has also achieved an impressive amount. He learned from an ancient Holocron, and built up his Sith Order in a century, while Luke's NJO was also growing. Then he instigated a galactic war, gathering what he needed to maintain order in the galaxy (the Imperial fleet and the GA bureaucracy) and declared himself Emperor. Even moreso, with the exception of Wyrrlok, most of the Sith honestly seem quite loyal to him. Nihl's an exception, but he's also a relatively new Sith.

While there's sorta an Imperial civil war going, his Empire is the most powerful force in the galaxy, so while he doesn't have quite the galactic domination Palpatine achieved, he's probably come closer than most other Sith in history. At least most other Sith I can think of- hm, Naga Sadow, Exar Kun and even Revan never conquered the Republic, we'll see how far TOR's Sith get, so Krayt looks pretty impressive in terms of territory.

In terms of personal power, he's pretty powerful- none of the Force storms of Dark Empire, but definitely very powerful duelist at the least, and all while he's been fighting off a Vong infection. Although his fear was weakening him near the end, but he was definitely powerful, considering how quickly he took out four IKs, especially when those IKs were planning to flee. And we don't even know yet how he survived Wyrrlok's assassination, then somehow sneaked out, and looks like he's finally cured of the Vong stuff.

And yeah, the Moffs aren't really a problem. The Moffs know they're only still around because Fel isn't dead. If Fel weren't on the loose, Krayt would've gotten rid of the Moffs long ago, and they know it, but can't do anything about it. If any of them ever got any more ideas, well, there would usually be a nearby Sith ready to deal with them. Only Calixte can do anything, and that's because she's Intelligence and her dual identity.

Part of what makes a great story is a great villain. LotF failed because its villain was a joke (and FotJ hasn't done much better so far). Krayt was another great part of Legacy, and even here, at the end of the comic, we're all expecting at least several more surprises from him.

 

I'm going to have to disagree with Charles point by point.

Table scraps permitted by Darth Bane. While his dark side minions may have been as powerful as "Sith" of previous centuries, Palpatine was so far and above them that -- relatively speaking -- they were but as dogs to a master.

Is it, though? In PoD it is stressed -- time and again -- that Bane approves of deceit and trickery to get ahead. Banite Sith aren't scrubs, they play to win.

Honour is a fool's prize. Glory is of no use to the dead.

And corrupted them. The first Sith were Jedi, too.

Except when using his powers and cackling like a madman, I suppose.

He imposed his will upon the galaxy through military autocracy.

Except for the obsessive desire to cheat death.

 

X2

He just isn't Sithy. He scores low on creativity and originality too. He's got one more issue to prove me wrong.

 

"Dynasty of Evil" is huge about the fact you can't just murder your master. I actually wondered if Drew was parodying his own character by pointing out that Palpatine totally trashed his philosophy.

 

Sure, the One Sith took control of the galaxy... but it was the Empire -- the legacy of Palpatine as it is -- that conquered it. Krayt's success wasn't just aided by those who went before him, it was utterly dependant on it.

Does he deserve props? Sure. But Krayt's success is far more a product of the times than it is his own ingenuity or power. S'not to say he isn't powerful in his own right, of course....

Fair enough. I suppose Bane isn't particularly consistent. He goes from a "power is its own end" kinda guy in PoD to "power is a means to an end" in RoT in the time it took the thought bomb to go off.

TBH, I think killing your Sith Master in their sleep does demonstrate your genuine superiority, anyway. I'd be surprised to learn that the Force senses of a powerful Sith Master just stop working while they're asleep -- and the chances of any of them ever "resting easy" are slim at best.

Besides, Palpatine doesn't sleep, so we know he's better right there.

 

And Palpatine was building up on the work of his predecessors up to Darth Bane.

Power- and capability-wise most of The One Sith don't seem any better than Palpatine's DarkJedi, so Krayt isn't better or worse in that regard.

Aside from that even his more powerful underlings - with exception of Wyyyrlok - appear to be more specialists, than multi-talented, well-rounded Sith-Apprentices in the way of a Darth Tyranus or Darth Vader, what is actually a plus, because possible contenders compared to Krayt are limited (who can also look back on a full training as a Jedi-Knight). Aside from that they are also always competing against each other for their Masters favour (see Darth Talon and Darth Nihl at the beginning).

Aside from that, if we believe the Essential Atlas, Krayts empire has to control a much larger territory than Palpatine's empire, so another plus to him.

Concerning his re-appearance after his vanishing act on Korriban, I would laugh my ass of, if one of the following two possibilities becomes true:

1)Krayt has seen the light and his body became one with the Force

2) Whatever was eating him up has finally managed to finish the job and what is left are some worms and their excrements in a dark corner of the Korriban tomb.

 

You're right, of course, but the fact remains that Krayt didn't build an Empire and conquer the galaxy. He built an order in secret, allied himself with a dominant Empire that only existed thanks to Palpatine's machinations (as far as we know Palpatine, specifically, rather than the Banite order) and then took control of that Empire once the galaxy was in its grasp. It's not comparable to the likes of, say, Revan/Malak -- or Darth Ruin or whoever -- in that they established/built their own Empires and waged war against the galaxy.

He helped the Empire to conquer the galaxy, sure, but he needed them more than they needed him.

 

Darth Krayt was an excellent Sith Lord.

He was a spectacular failure as Emperor.

 

Exactly

 

Aside from Bane's line, any Dark Lord of the Sith worth the salt in his spit, brings all out war to the Republic. Broken down to the rediculous, THAT is what Sith do...

Look at the names already mentioned: Revan, Kun, Palpatine, Krayt and every last one of them was at war with the Jedi and the Republic. As Uli mentioned, Krayt took the fight to them and won... so if anything, he gets to put a feather in K'Kruhk's hat.

 

The big issue regarding Darth Krayt is that everything was built up to overthrow the galaxy and establish his "Rule of One." Unfortunately, once he did that, he pretty just sat on his butt for the next seven years thinking about how to gain immortality. It's clear that A'Sharad Hett had NO IDEA how to actually go about bringing peace and order to the galaxy once he'd taken it over. So, instead of actually continuing on his brilliant schemes as before he just sat on his throne and killed Mon Calamari for the Evulz.

It's actually kind of sad because you had such a tremendously effective villain that is already past his sell date by the time our hero confronts him.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OrcusOnHisThrone

 

No, no, no - at the time the war started the empire wasn't the dominant force in the galaxy. The empire actually HAD to ally with the Sith after the first year of the war, because they needed a counter against the Galactic Alliances Jedi.

Palpatine most likely inherited a ton of resources and useful connections from his predecessors, enough that he already had factual control over the galaxy by the time he became Chancellor.

 

A single point of contention; for me here Charles, but overall I wholeheartedly agree with you assessment of Krayt's behavior.

"I have broken the spine of the galaxy?Sometimes, things must be broken in order to be rebuilt. As I have bent the Force to my will, so I will bend the galaxy and it will know order. My true work is about to begin."

"Roan Fel never really embraced the war or the idea of a unified galaxy. He went along with it as a political necessity. That's not what the Empire?what the galaxy?needs. The galaxy writhes in chaos and disorder. It requires a man of vision. I am that man of vision. I am the new Emperor."

"I created the One Sith to impose order on chaos and unite the galaxy under my rule."

"Time no longer matters. The rebirth has begun. All will be as I have foreseen." --Krayt

I don't think that A'Sharad Hett had the desire to bring any sort, kind or type of peace to the galaxy, let alone that he existed anymore. (but that's another topic) Krayt's impetus was order, not peace. If anything, the Evulz he committed against the Mon Cal et all, proved that he cared nothing about the latter.

***

Heh.
At least Wyyrlok was full of schemes in the interim, though.

 

Oh? I was under the impression that the Empire only went to war with the Alliance at the urging of the Sith. I'd also been led to believe that they were a superpower prior to the Sith-Imperial War (hence "a dominant Empire" -- I didn't mean to imply that they were, y'know, uncontested). My mistake, then.