How Long Does It Take To Train A Jedi?

George Lucas's OT had Luke Skywalker becoming very powerful, very quickly. In a period of a few years, Luke Skywalker went from Force Novince to Force Master. Of course, since the OT came out first, I did not question his raise to power so quickly, I naturally assumed that all the Jedi of the Old Republic became as powerful as quickly in the ways of the Force.

Then the PT came out, and I got a little confused. The Jedi of the Old Republic trained for years on end in the ways of the Force. Anakin Skywalker, the Chosen One, trained for 14 years under Obiwan Kenobi and became only slightly what he could have been during the events of ROTS. Same for Obiwan and Mace. These powerful Jedi needed years of training that would compare to Luke Skywalker's abilities in ROTJ.


Why?

There is only a few possible answers to the question I pose. One, George Lucas has a plot hole in his movies. Two, the Force was strong in Luke, the Force was with Luke and he had Obiwan Kenobi and Yoda train him. The latter seems unlikely. Anakin Skywalker took so long to become really powerful and the Force was certainly with him.

Thoughts?

 

Here's Obi-Wan as a case study. He was trained from birth and then became Qui-Gon's padawan at the age of thirteem, in TPM he was 23/24 and Qui-Gon said he was ready for the trials so that meant he was a Padawan learner for approx 10 years.

Anakin is rather different as he did not have the training form birth that Obi-Wan and every other Jedi did so his training was a little longer as there was a huge stumbling block.
Also, thw Council was holding anakin back froim facing the trials, this was discussed at the start of CWII and they were asking why they were holding the Chosen One back.

It's not really a plothole, George just doesn't explain it much and it's explored in the EU particularly in Jude Watson's Jedi Apprentice and Jedi Quest series.

 

A Jedi is constantly training, even when they rise up in the ranks. Luke's powerful because of his birthright. So as such, some things come by more naturally. Anakin was the same way. Anakin's deal is that he could do the tasks, but he just slacked off so much, that he's not as good as he's supposed to be. Hence getting his butt kicked on Geonosis. Anakin also had some control of his emotions, which is why Obi-wan would not let him advance until the time seemed right. Luke was a surprise because he resisted on Cloud City. And as a result Yoda realized that if he could do it, while half trained, then he could move on to be a Knight if he faced Vader and avoided turning.

There's also the fact that the traditional methods require time and patience. Several years are spent learning about the Force, then how to apply it out in the "real world". Luke was getting a crash course in Jedi training 101.

 

With Luke Skywalker, the Force was already strong in him to begin with. He started his training as an young adult and I honestly believe that is why everything came to him as quickly as it did. With him starting his training as late as he did, he could grasp his lessons with no problem and grow rapidly in the Force.

 

There's also the fact that the traditional methods require time and patience. Several years are spent learning about the Force, then how to apply it out in the "real world". Luke was getting a crash course in Jedi training 101.

Yep. The Jedi also had to be trained in traditional skills too, like reading, math and writing etc, which Luke had already learned. Also a lot, if not most, of the traditional Jedi training was in Jedi philosophy and history, which never ends. Luke did without all that crap.

 

In reality I go for the plot hole.

Lukes age????

ESB = 3 MONTHS TRAINING from Yoda

ROTJ = 6MTHS -1YR on from ESB no training??

ROTJ Luke Vs Vader - Luke= winner

It depends on the individual granted. Luke was one hell of a fast learner though .

The PT is out of sinc, sorry I meant now the OT is out of sinc. (Sarcasum)

 

Once Obi-Wan opened Luke's mind to the force, he made rapid progress.

Look at the tiny bit of training Luke had in ANH. He see's 'Ben' disappear when Vader 'strikes him down.' He hears Ben's voice during the DS attack. Luke uses the force to make the 'one-in-a-million' shot.

But then, after no further training from a Jedi master, Luke is able to clear his mind and focus under a very frightening situation as the Ice Monster comes for him, using the force to retrieve his 'out of reach light saber.' After escaping, Luke is then able to hear and see Ben while suffering in the Hoth blizzard.

So Luke makes tremendous progress up to this point, before going to Yoda. But Yoda schools him, prepares him for his destiny, which is facing the dark side manifested in his father and the Emperor. Here Luke is a true master, for he controls that which his father could not -- fear, hate and anger.

A stray thought -- at the end of ROTS Yoda decides that Luke and Leia must be sent to live with families, and that the force would eventually bring them to the Jedi when the time was right. This decision is born out as the right one in the events as we know them in the OT. More importantly in my mind (and with the others who have previously voiced it) is that this is a tacit admission that Anakin may have been better off if he had not been trained when he was. Furthermore, the splitting up of the children and their final destinations are an indication that Yoda perhaps thinks the ways of the old Jedi do not apply to dealing directly with the Sith. Family bonds can help control the fear and hate, diffuse the anger. The happens to Luke at the end of TESB and throughout ROTJ. Leia seems almost always fearless, except on the Endor moon after she speaks with Luke about their parents.

EDIT: chronologically corrected 2nd paragraph.

 

I think the problem lies with ROTJ.

In TESB Yoda doesn't believe Luke's training is complete:

YODA: Luke! You must complete the training.

He's only been on Dagobah a few months and gets quite easily beaten by Vader. Yet when he returns, Yoda tells him that he doesn't require any more training despite admitting that it was incomplete at the end of TESB:

YODA: No more training do you require. Already know
you that which you need.

but then later

YODA: No. Unfortunate that you rushed to face
him... that incomplete was your training. Not
ready for the burden were you.

This doesn't make sense to me. Luke's training was not complete at the end of TESB but he doesn't require any more at the start of ROTJ despite him not having been in contact with Yoda during that time?

 

Luke doesn't have everything that he needs to properly deal with the Sith, but Yoda knows that there is no time to try and train him further. And that Luke will have to make do with what he has. He has resisted temptation once and now he has to do it again. That much training is sufficent enough, but if he was fully trained in all aspects, he would be better. This is why in the later eu stories, Luke is only capable of doing so much. The time he spends under Palpatine in "Dark Empire", he learns some other techniques that he didn't know of before. So when he went out to become Master, he had sufficent knowledge. He just needed to spend more time learning the techniques and improving upon them.

Luke defeated his father because his father was, a) not quite up to snuff anymore and b) he wasn't putting his all into trying to beat Luke. Luke, who is whole and not holding back, was able to beat him down.

 

Pizza, I personally always chalked it up to while Luke may have everything that he requires to face a Sith it's still the bare minimum and that if he had stayed and completed his training he would have been more powerful and possibly never had that near fall that he has after he's defeated Vader.

 

I'm sure it's like any student. Children learn at different rates. Look at Anakin. He still wasn't ready in ROTS.

 

Luke undoubtedly wasn't physically all he could have been during ROTJ, it's understandable, he hasn't had years of combat training. However, Luke is strong emotionally and that goes a hell of a long way. The goodness inside of him, his belief in his father, his willingness to die rather than join the dark side are what make him a powerful force. I think Yoda comes to realize this. He eventually tells him he doesn't need more training probably to boost his confidence, he needs that positive belief in order to face Sidious and Vader. Sometimes it really is all in your head. Of course the Jedi believe that their training is never really over, there is always room for improvement.

 

I think the Jedi of the PT were trained for such a long time not to become more powerful - but to learn discipline. By "Power" alone, Anakin is clearly worthy of Knighthood by AoTC...and probably was by the age of 15, and I'll peg him at that old simply because of a still growing physical body... By discipline, he really never become ready. Luke was probably fully grown at the time he started training. His power level was up there, but again we see a little bit of a lack of discipline. Luke was definately a more mature person by RoTJ than Anakin was, however. The "whining" Luke from ANH was still obviously more emotionally stable than Anakin ever was. Luke lost his cool a bit in the Cave, when he found out Vader was his father (Can't blame him) and when Vader threatened to find Leia and turn her. If Luke was trained since he was a baby, obviously he would not have been able to take down Vader after six years of training (Daddy, there are too many of them, what are we going to do?) because he'd be a youngling! Yes, he had less training than most Jedi, but he was trained at a "Battle Ready" age, instead of a "Isolate from the outside world" age. I think your miles may vary and Leia, seemingly the more emotional twin, would have required a longer period of discipline.

Clearly the ridiculous training period was not necessary, as Luke was able to A. Obtain a really high power level in a few years and B. Start down the dark path by giving into his emotions and still remain true to the light. The PT style Jedi, hey, you can't really blame them. They had this really elaborate system set up with Younglings, Padawans, Knights, Master, Councils, Trials, etc. etc... They went 1000 years without any major dark side problems (Perhaps a Xanatos here and a Dooku there) by training Children from birth and not allowing attachments. Note: Xanatos and Dooku both apparently knew their heritage and came from well off families. I wonder if people with cash were able to keep in contact with their children at the Temple? All those supplies and statues have to be purchased with some currency!

Carnage

 

Ahm, i'm not quite insulted or anything like that but i must say that i'm 34 and started going grey at 27.

Since this logic has me thinking i automaticly look like i'm in my 40s i think i have to go now.

I need to hit the store for some "just for men".

Be back soon.

 

14 years...but if your chuck norris 14 minutes.

 

Mace knew about his heritage on Harraun Kal (sp) without having met any of his relatives

Not true, Mace knew about his relatives on Haruun Kal because there were the Jedi anthropologists who went there to investigate the crash site of the Jedi who had landed there during the Sith Wars and they took Mace with them when they left as he was an orphan. He knew of this not because of memories but because of records. Prior to Shatterpoint the only memory he had of Harrun Kal was went he went back there in his late teens/early twenties as Mace's first memory is of Yoda.

I don't like to correct a mod but I've read Shatterpoint too many times not to show the facts as they are.

 

Uh, I never said that he had memories of his family on his homeworld. I said that he knew of his family, I just didn't specifiy it was from files.

 

Why not? If someone's wrong about something they're wrong. Why is correcting a mod any different than correcting someone else? Mods aren't infallible and shouldn't be treated as such.

 

Sorry if this has already been covered, but I saw some people posting that Luke had trianed with Yoda in ESB for three months. I always thought it was more like three very intense DAYS because from the time that Han and Leia leave Hoth simultaneously as Luke does until the time they arrive at Cloud City and are being made to suffer as bait for Luke, could not have been MONTHS, but only DAYS. In the movie one is led to think that Luke is on Dagoba for a very brief amount of time based on what's going on with Han and Leia...right? This would mean that Luke's training is super-fast, just getting to the basics of what he needs to know...

 

I think the idea is that it takes the Falcon months to get to Cloud City, rather than Han and co. actually spend months there.

 

But in the movie it seems like a day or two between Hoth and Bespin. Leia is still wearing the same clothes and they are expected at the rebel rondez-vous point....

 

It can be done in under a month with the Toby Robbins positive Jedi thinking seminar