how many clones where there at the end of EP2

i would like to know

 

oh at least one....you idiot. you really think there is a real statistic???????!!!!!! my god! i can tell your new. oh and it says i joined this year cause this is my other back up name for incase i forget my pass ( which i did )


Not at all appropriate.

 

120,000 in active service (minus casualites on geonosis) with a million more well on the way, and probably a fair few million in earlier stages of production.

 

Chill, Malak, he was asking a legit question. Klaani's answer was the closest answer I think you'll get, I presume.

 

Do you mean in that shot of the balcony? Only one.

 

Lama Su does say to Obi-Wan that "100,000 units are redy with a million more, well on the way"

 

Malak- calm down dude. Its actually a very easy question to answer and the above post just did it.

maybe you should pay attention to the movie before spouting out like that.



Clone

 

It's 200,000 ready, actually.

Total of 1.2 million.

 

yup boba is right

 

I can defend and agree with many things and choices that Lucas makes with his films; his decision to make One Unit=One Clonetrooper is not one of them. Total military impracticality.

 

Oh jesus christ. You can win battles now with far fewer troops than you need in the past. Look at the first six months of Afghanistan: Fewer than a hundred Special Forces soldiers killed thirty thousand Taliban/Al Qaeda in under six months.

Note: if you dig around in the AOTC visual dictionary, it says that the 200,000 clones who went to Geonosis defeated a million battle droids there. In other words, there good enough to win remarkably easily against 5 to 1 odds.

IE, you could pit 10,000 clones against 50,000 droids, and the clones would have a better than even chance of winning. Military tactics aren't masses of troops everywhere; it's overwhelming force applied to selected points. Which the Clone Wars have given every indication of being.

And you have to think of the qualitative advantage the Grand Army has over the droids. A droid hit by a blaster bolt is usually destroyed. A clonetrooper can probably be saved to fight again.

Not to mention the massive edge in supporting arms the clone army appears to have-the droid forces at Geonosis didn't seem to have much in the way of supporting heavier weapons, which the clone army is definitely based upon-the offensive core of the clone army is AT-TEs, Republic Gunships, SPHA-Ts, and the Acclamator assault ships, all of which are available for battlefield support. The heaviest CIS weaponry we see at Geonosis are the Hailfire wheel droids anmd the spider droids, which are hugely outclassed by just the AT-TEs, let alone Gunships and the cruisers. Even on a small arms area, the droids are hugely outclassed by the clones with their DC-15s, which we see are powerful enough to kill a superbattledroid with one or two shots.

Basically, the droid army at Geonosis is huge, but very lightly armed. The clone army is smaller, but has much heavier firepower.

Also: The Acclamators-the core of the Clone Army-have exceptionally fast hyperdrive ratings of .6. This allows them exceptional response time, which is also a decisive advantage in dealing with sudden seperatist attacks.

 

Milk-hands,

Tha Kaminoan use of unit may not be the military use of unit. To them unit might mean "product" instead a number of deployed soldiers.

 

"I can defend and agree with many things and choices that Lucas makes with his films; his decision to make One Unit=One Clonetrooper is not one of them. Total military impracticality."

But we know there are many more than 1.2 million by episode 3, the million and a quarter is just the intial batch that is ready shorty after the battle of Geonosis, but as we were shwon in the film, millions more were at various stages of production, including ones that wont be ready for a whole ten years... makes you wonder how long they expected this war to go on.

 

Actually, out of the many things that I dislike about what Lucas does, I would have to agree with the creation of a clone army. Think about it, genetic modification to make them stronger etc., better obediance, it's practically like having one super-soldier and making 1.2 million copies of him.

If they had a regular army, it wouldn't be as effective as the clone army, plus it would cause a huge number of casualties from among the citizens who would have to be recruited as troopers.

The strange thing is that the performance of the stormtroopers in the OT seemed extremely poor compared to what it's supposed to be. Plus the fact that Jango Fett is the host for the clones AND is the BH hired to assasinate Amidala AND the "father" of Boba is just plain annoying. As if the SW galaxy so small that the same guy is used to do everything. And at the end he gets killed by Windu without even putting up a bit of a fight. What was Lucas thinking?

 

aPPmaSTer - Although this is off-topic, I fail to understand the points raised in your previous post regarding how you claim that the family Fett and its involvement in "Episode 2" is "annoying". Why is it a matter of annoyance? Please explain.

 

Oh jesus christ. You can win battles now with far fewer troops than you need in the past. Look at the first six months of Afghanistan: Fewer than a hundred Special Forces soldiers killed thirty thousand Taliban/Al Qaeda in under six months.

Calm down.

The war in Afghanistan was totally different from the Clone Wars. They are not comparable.

Note: if you dig around in the AOTC visual dictionary, it says that the 200,000 clones who went to Geonosis defeated a million battle droids there. In other words, there good enough to win remarkably easily against 5 to 1 odds.

So what? Given the amount of star systems, the CIS should be able to produce millions of droids each day, and they no doubt have supplementary regular troops.

IE, you could pit 10,000 clones against 50,000 droids, and the clones would have a better than even chance of winning. Military tactics aren't masses of troops everywhere; it's overwhelming force applied to selected points. Which the Clone Wars have given every indication of being.

This is supposed to be a galaxy spanning conflict; it should have thousands of battlefronts, but the model you imply means that the Clone Wars could be nowhere near as devastating as it is made to be.

And you have to think of the qualitative advantage the Grand Army has over the droids. A droid hit by a blaster bolt is usually destroyed. A clonetrooper can probably be saved to fight again.

In the Geonosis arena, I saw a battle droid have its arm blown off and continue to fight. A clonetrooper hit by a blaster died. Instantly. And keep in mind that this armour is supposed to be more primitive than that in the OT - if stormtroopers perished fairly easily, then...

Not to mention the massive edge in supporting arms the clone army appears to have-the droid forces at Geonosis didn't seem to have much in the way of supporting heavier weapons, which the clone army is definitely based upon-the offensive core of the clone army is AT-TEs, Republic Gunships, SPHA-Ts, and the Acclamator assault ships, all of which are available for battlefield support. The heaviest CIS weaponry we see at Geonosis are the Hailfire wheel droids anmd the spider droids, which are hugely outclassed by just the AT-TEs, let alone Gunships and the cruisers. Even on a small arms area, the droids are hugely outclassed by the clones with their DC-15s, which we see are powerful enough to kill a superbattledroid with one or two shots.

The Hailfire was able to destroy AT-TE's in a single shot. And Republic Gunships.

Basically, the droid army at Geonosis is huge, but very lightly armed. The clone army is smaller, but has much heavier firepower.

Also: The Acclamators-the core of the Clone Army-have exceptionally fast hyperdrive ratings of .6. This allows them exceptional response time, which is also a decisive advantage in dealing with sudden seperatist attacks.



Now you are getting somewhere. My point, before I was attacked, was that George Lucas's equation that 1 unit= 1 clonetrooper is not realistic if the clonetrooper is anything more than a "first-in, first-out" strike force. Which if the case would imply a much more substantial network of military forces to do the majority of the fighting.




EDIT: As to this whole notion that One Unit might not equal One Clonetrooper; I believe it was Matthew Stover who asked Lucas about this, and Lucas said that indeed, One Unit=One Clonetrooper.

 

The war in Afghanistan was totally different from the Clone Wars. They are not comparable.

So what? Given the amount of star systems, the CIS should be able to produce millions of droids each day, and they no doubt have supplementary regular troops.

We have yet to see droid foundries other than Geonosis; not to say that that is the only foundriy, but they must be comparatively rare, considering we haven't seen any others. As for supplementary regular troops, we haven't seen very many of those either, and when we do, they appear to be confined to their own worlds. Battle of Jaabim)

My use of SF in Afghanistan is suppposed to be amodel for how very small numbers of clonetroopers can probably defeat droid armies they're severely outnumbered by. Quality over quantity, which the clone army seems to take very seriously.


This is supposed to be a galaxy spanning conflict; it should have thousands of battlefronts, but the model you imply means that the Clone Wars could be nowhere near as devastating as it is made to be.

From what we've seen, the Clone Wars style of battle tends to be very geographically restricted; the lengthiest battle thus far, I believe, was Jaabim, at around two months in duration. Most, if not all, of the other battles have been over very quickly, but as neither clones nor the droids seem to have much inhibitions about wasting civilians, it's not a suprise the clone wars are as devastating as they are. Particularly since we've yet to see the Clone Wars taker place on uninhabited worlds.


In the Geonosis arena, I saw a battle droid have its arm blown off and continue to fight. A clonetrooper hit by a blaster died. Instantly. And keep in mind that this armour is supposed to be more primitive than that in the OT - if stormtroopers perished fairly easily, then...

I have not heard that clonetrooper armor is supposed to be more primitive-if anything, it seems to be more durable than ST armor. As for your droid with it's arm blown off, one droid out of a million does not prove much about droid toughness, as we don't see any others get hit and continue to fight.




Hailfire was able to destroy AT-TE's in a single shot. And Republic Gunships.

So you're saying that a Hailfire droid is equivalent as a supporting weapon to say, an SPHA-T? (Which was the entire point of my last paragraph) Not to mention that the Hailfires, when they enter the battle, don't survive very long. They got in a few kills, and were exterminated by the gunships. The appearance didn't even seem to slow down the clones, much less cause any distinct advantage for the droids.

Now you are getting somewhere. My point, before I was attacked, was that George Lucas's equation that 1 unit= 1 clonetrooper is not realistic if the clonetrooper is anything more than a "first-in, first-out" strike force. Which if the case would imply a much more substantial network of military forces to do the majority of the fighting.

And we have yet to see the clones (Besides at Jaabim and Cestus) being anything but a quick-response force. And if there are regular supporting defense forces (which there almost certainly are, if places like Naboo have their own militaries, I'd imagine that most of the galaxy does as well) I don't entirely see your point about 1.2 million for everything not being enough. The GAR is undoubtedly heavily supplemented by local militias.

Also, we hear about fresh batches of clones coming online in one or two of the books (can't remember which one right now), so to assume that 1.2 million is a frozen figure isn't accurate. We have no idea what the Kaminoans consider as "well on the way" (in reference to the million part of 1.2 million). There could be another million clonetroopers coming online as often as every month-or hell even every week, which would lead to a considerably larger force even six months post Geonosis.



EDIT: As to this whole notion that One Unit might not equal One Clonetrooper; I believe it was Matthew Stover who asked Lu

 

Tyrannus, my annoyance arises from the fact that Jango, as well as other less prominent characters, are used over and over again from the OT to the PT. I mean where is the imagination? Star Wars is supposed to be in a vast galaxy where the possibilities are endless. If so, then why does it seem so small? Things like Anakin building 3PO, or Jango and Boba being the only BH's we see, make everything seem connected, and the movies are like a big family reunion or something.

Why not make a different kind of bounty hunter? Hell if I saw one of the other bounty hunters that were on Vader's star destroyer in ESB in the PT I'd be much more satisfied than seeing the same guy over and over again.

The other main thing that bugs me is the fact that Jango is used for assasinating Padme AND being the host for the army. It feels like Lucas had a limited list of charcters in front of him which ran out so he started using the same ones for different roles. I'm sure he could've picked someone more interesting the be the host than Jango Fett himself. Any thouhts?

BTW we're way of topic but who cares

 

Jango was there because Lucas wanted to do something for the fans, and I loved being able to basically see (Boba by proxy) in action for the first time, after being so underused in the OT.

"In the Geonosis arena, I saw a battle droid have its arm blown off and continue to fight. A clonetrooper hit by a blaster died. Instantly. And keep in mind that this armour is supposed to be more primitive than that in the OT - if stormtroopers perished fairly easily, then... "

Seeing this just made me think, and I bet you that a clonetrooper would keep fighting after losing an arm.

 

Plus everything is interconnected, both IRL and the SW galaxy. It's a film, would you rather have a hundred characters-most of whom you'll never remember-or a few dozen good ones?

Anyhow, as for Jango's duel roles-well, how the hell else is Obi-Wan supposed to get to Kamino? If not for Jango's sabre-dart, he'd never even have known about Kamino.

 

I'll have to side with Boba on this one. His comparances of the Clone Wars and Afghanistan are realistic enough, even through the boundry of Real Life and Science Fiction.

 

"So faraway, yet so close....."

aPPmaSTer - Your criticisms seem fair to me. I was just curious as to the articulate nature of your annoyance. However, I don't feel that by using the Fetts, Lucas was scratching the bottom of the creativity barrel. I think that what he is doing here is creating a series of parallels and integrated themes which resonate over the course of the six-film cycle. He is adding depth to an ancillary character whose popularity is somewhat mystifying (perhaps even to Lucas). I really don't have a problem with this choice.

One of the things that is commonly mentioned is how Lucas' writing and directorial abilities have allegedly atrophied over the last twenty-plus years. He no longer knows how to compose a scene, for instance, or the dialogue has become undistinguished and ridiculous. My feeling is that he could make films in a manner similar to the style of the OT if he had wanted to. That would of course be more satisfactory to many of the fans who question his abilities and motivation. But that isn't the case, is it? Lucas has made a deliberate and particular formative and aesthetic decision which has manifested itself within the fabric and characteristics of the PT. It is a style derived from 1930s and 40s pulp sagas, not unlike the OT, but is linked to different styles of acting and dialogue. Yes, it is less fun, but at the same time, it serves a completely independent purpose: to create something which is indicative and suggestive of a lost, forgotten era.

 

sorry now its a few days later i am feeling better. =)

i was in a really bad mood because id had some trouble with the mod i am building for Jedi academy on the PC.
it was just one of those days...i apologise.

 

does anyone think that there might be more clone factories in other parts of the galaxy?

 

If you go by the EU, then yes: on planets like Khomm and Wayland. Actually, EU isn't even needed. When Dex says that the Kaminoans are "cloners. Damn good ones too.", that implies there are other cloners in the galaxy. It's not like he says "These Kaminoans...they've actually found a way to efficiently clone an intelligent being!".