CT How was Darth Vader able to fight so well in his suit?

His suit was very bulky, and in the movies you can see him not moving a lot, yet somehow he was able to fend off Luke multiple times.

 

Being half robot didn't slow Grievous down much.

 

I think having mechanical limbs, the force, and living with it for 20+ years it's easy for him.

 

By using the Force.

 

Compared to what Darth Vader would've been without the suit, I wouldn't say Darth Vader fights "well" in the suit at all. When we see Anakin/DV fight in ROTS he's a powerhouse of speed, flexibility and acrobatics, if he had never been injured and put into the suit he would've only increased in all those aspects as he grew stronger in the Darkside of the Force.

Darth Vader in suit makes do. He's obviously not useless, as he destroys many Jedi inbetween ROTS and ANH while in the suit, but he's nowhere as unbeatable as he would be without it. He's able to fend off Luke while in the clunky suit because he's now had 20+ years of practice to get used to the suit, and Luke is barely trained while DV is incredibly strong in the Darkside of the Force. Plus, he does eventually get bested by Luke in ROTJ once Luke has embraced his power more and slightly succumbs to the Darkside.

Finally, as another poster stated, robotic limbs is not necessarily always a con. Grievous was incredibly quick and flexible and he basically ALL robot. I think having a mechanical arm (ala Anakin in ROTS) can actually benefit a Jedi sometimes. Sure, it takes a piece of your living flesh which is connected to the Force, but it replaces it was a robotic hand that is far stronger than flesh and bone, and I imagine it can sometimes move faster than what a clumsy human hand can.

 

Human bodies are very adaptable. With practice, they can adapt to moving and fighting in heavy, bulky armor. I learned to be much more agile than I expected while wearing medieval armor, and I've known people who are far better at it than I am. I know there are video clips showing a man doing cartwheels in full plate.

That's me on the right.

 

Well, I mean, they do have some rather advanced technology. I'm sure a "bulky" suit can be made easy to move in.

 

It's not that bulky, actually. It looks nothing like a full-plate for example.

His armour is almost identical to what Obi-Wan wears during the Clone Wars.




Heck, Vader's boots look lighter than Obi-Wan's and he doesn't wear arm guards. On the other hand Obi-Wan has no codpiece. I guess Jedi don't care as much about their dangly bits.

 

The more interesting question is, "is Darth Vader able to fight well in his suit"?

Originally, I'd say Darth Vader was supposed to be a great fighter.
However, after the PT presented the "Tragedy of Darth Vader" angle that was only hinted in ROTJ, we are meant to assume that Vader is very weakened once he becomes "the man in the suit", that he has become a shadow of his former potential and that the Emperor is interested in replacing him.

That new idea was reinforced by the fact that the prequels had more spectacular fights, which Lucas justified saying that in the OT we only saw a half-trainned apprentice, and old master and a man trapped in a suit fighting.
(However, the idea is seemingly contradicted by the fact that Dooku is a great fighter despite being an old man, and that Grievous is able to move like Spiderman even though he's basically a robot.)

At the same time, there is no denying that, production-wise, Vader being a man in a suit made it more difficult to portray him as a great fighter (somewhat justifying the idea that Vader is weaker than Anakin was). This can be clearly seen in ANH, but in Empire there's a clear improvement on his fighting skills (thanks to a stunt-double). However, in Jedi he is once again weaker and less efficent (and therefore, the Emperor wants to replace him).

So, I ask again, "is Darth Vader able to fight well in his suit"?

 

Yeah that too. Vader can't do any acrobatics anymore, however that doesn't mean he can't contend with others who can do acrobatics. That limitation stops him to be on the same level with Emperor, because that's the only difference between him and Anakin. Also his life support suit is naturally weak to electricity, which is another weakness that Emperor can easily benefit.

 

It was a combination of Vader's strong connection to the force (even though he was more machine than man) and having 20+ years to get used to moving around in the suit. Vader was also very economical with his movements, focusing much more on using his wrists than flipping around in the air.

 

Obi-Wan is wearing a clone trooper armor which should be lighter since clone troopers are always on the run, and he doesn't have a belly and a calf armors too. Vader on the other hand is fully in armor and he has a breathing apparatus and a huge helmet. Big difference here.

 

Fully in armor? Did you even look at the picture I linked? Many parts of Vader are entirely unprotected: his belly, his arms, his feet and probably parts of his back as well.

There's no actually in canon proof that his armor is heavier than anything worn by Jedi like Obi-Wan.

As I see it, the idea that his suit wears a hundred pounds is typical fan-revisionism. The urge to explain the slower fights in the OT through some sort of in universe justification. The fact that the movies were shot in different decades just doesn't seem to suffice for some reason.

 

At least from what I've read in books (not canon probably, but I don't care if it is because I thought it made sense) it took him a while. It was hard to move in the suit at first, frustrating, painful, so on. And he had to use the Force just to help him walk. It changed his whole fighting style and he had to relearn how to fight with his new impediments. It cost his confidence at first. But supposedly as he grew with the Dark Side, he was eventually able to co-exist with the suit. Probably by the OT he wouldn't even notice anymore all the pains and inconveniences it caused in the beginning. I don't know if he was able to make any modifications from the original to make motion easier for him. I mean when we see the suit at the end of RotS, it's really awful... they don't seem to to do anything to help with the pain, or heal anything, they just put robot parts on him that are all heavy and awkward and close it up under the suit. What a nightmare.

 

The only canon book that deals with this is Lords of the Sith and while he remembers having to adapt to the suit he also thinks he's more powerful than ever before. So there's that. Sith seem to thrive on pain, especially Vader. He even built his castle on Mustafar!

You're probably referring to Luceno's "Dark Lord", which was part of the old canon.

 

I am. Thank you. And yeah about the Sith thriving on pain.

 

Darth_Pevra already did an excellent comparison on the suit itself. As far as the rest of the apparatus.

Spoiler

 

Even before he was in the suit he seems to have a style that was mostly about just beating people into submission more than finesse and subtlety (which is not to say he wasn't skilled, just that he favoured attack as a form of defence) and therefore suiting up probably didn't actually take too much adapting to beyond the physical changes it imposed on him. He might lose a little bit of speed or agility but his physical strength is probably higher than it was when fully biological and if the idea that the suit is uncomfortable/painful to wear is still canon then he's got plenty of pain and anger to draw on in true Sith style.

 

Vader learned to adjust his use of Form V, in order to compensate for the limitations of the suit and his own injuries. Before long, he was able to hold his own against experienced Jedi like Kanan and Ahsoka.



As you can see in "Rebels", his fighting style is consistent with TESB and ROTJ. So facing off against a less experienced swordsman like Luke, he is able to do well despite his limitations. He only has trouble when Luke uses his anger and hate against him, which is to be expected.

 

Absolutely agree. I´m curious too about where the alleged weight coming from. Was the box in his chest 50 kgs? because the artificial limbs are just like the right hand he used to have. I remember Dark Lord addressing this and saying he didn´t felt the same, they were very bulky and heavy, but this vision is not canon anymore, and raises some other questions (why would Sidious want to have him as powerful as possible and at the same time give him a suit and prosthetics that are, apparently, inferior to those Grievous had? and why Vader, a mechanical genius for what they show us in the PT, would do little to get around this problem?).

So the helmet maybe large and heavy, and prosthetics do needed adapting, but canon indicates that Vader doesn´t feel hindered by his suit anymore, the dark side compensating his losses and giving him an immense amount of power... just like what we saw in the OT.

 

The Force, dude.

 

A few reasons:

+ The Force
+ Adjustments he's made to the suit over the years
+ Literally two decades of experience fighting in that suit

 

1. he's very strong in the Force
2. he looked bulky mainly due to the armor over his shoulders and the cloak under his cape hooked under his belt. His suit was made to make him look bigger and more intimidating.
3. He didn't move as fast as before he was injured. His movements were very deliberate. He didn't have a pretty lightsaber style. He was trying to hit home runs and decapitate.

 

Luke ****ing sucks, that's why.

 

The guy can move carburetors with his mind, jump 20-30 feet across the room in a single glide, and kill people just by thinking it... and you're worried about how he's able to get around in his suit?

The force functions beyond the physical.