"I have failed you, Anakin. I have failed you" - opinions?

I've always thought this as almost a dis to Anakin that he wasn't able to beat his old master. Like Obi-Wan is saying that he'd be dead if he had taught him better. Then as time went on, I felt it must've been a sincere comment, and not meant as a dis. Anyone else have similar (or different) opinions?

Overall, this is a great line.

 

I don't think it was a jab. I think Obi-Wan really felt that he let Anakin down somehow and that if he taught him better or been there for him more Anakin wouldn't have turned. It's like a parent who raises a felon. I'm sure he/she would think back and wonder where he/she went wrong.

 

He says this because he screwed up Anakin's training, and he wasent there for Anakin when he really needed him.

 

ObiWan did fail Anakin , in ObiWan's eyes. His Student turned to the Darkside,and commited the ultimate betrayal. so of course any Jedi would feel that he failed. but 'im sure there is s thread on this somewhere.e

 

Finally, the Council agreed that Anakin should be trained, and he was assigned to Jedi Knight Obi-Wan Kenobi. Kenobi recklessly thought that he could be as skillful a master as Yoda. His mistakes had dire consequences for the galaxy.

OS databank entry on "Darth Vader". Should be enough to explain how he failed.

 

This line from Kenobi is a great parallel to his comments to Luke in RotJ (referenced above).

 

I don't really like the idea of this OS thing saying that Obi-Wan recklessly thought he could train Anakin. Obi-Wan was pretty strict with Anakin, and not as lenient as Qui-Gon appeared to be. It's hard to see that Obi-Wan was a bad master. He came across as great and wise, so it's odd to read this. I know he said in ROTJ he thought he could train Anakin as well as Yoda, but at this point that doesn't really seem to fit either. Of course I can see where Obi-Wan would feel that he failed Anakin.

 

In the ROTS script, "I have failed you" is followed by, "I was never able to teach you to think!" Some of us may agree with the last sentiment, but it would be a very harsh thing for Obi-Wan to say and not very in character for him by the end of ROTS in my opinion. I'm glad the film didn't reflect the actual script there.

I believe he does have an older brother's/parent's illogical but understandable sense of responsibility for the actions of someone they've raised. It has stuck with me that George Lucas said Obi-Wan "is betrayed on many levels" by the end of ROTS, so I think he is experiencing many emotions during the duel, including betrayal and hurt.

 

"Then why won't you listen to me"
"I am trying master"

Remember there is no try. Obi-Wan should have been more strict on Anakin, he treated him more like a brother and friend, then like his apprentice.

 

i think he is saying it out of guilt and remorse... he feels partially responsible...
as any teacher / father figure would feel in a similar situation...

 

Qui-Gon entrusted Obi-Wan to train Anakin. Obi-Wan did just that, but even when Anakin isn't under Obi-Wan's tuteledge any longer, Obi-Wan can look back and realize that there were a few things that he didn't teach Anakin, like how to think. Because if he did, Anakin would have been able to see past the Chancellor's lies and coercion.

 

Obi-Wan did fail him because he trained Anakin the way ANY old jedi was trained, but Anakin was never ANY old Jedi (starts training at older age, already has emotional attatchments, etc.). As Obi and Yoda had learned by the end of ROTS the Jedi Order was living in the past and needed to change. The Jedi order had basiclly slept while the Sith grew and adapted. It's all relative, cause had they figured this out before the **** hit the fan I think they would of done things differently with Anakin (i.e. not failing him) like not making attatchments to his Mom and Padme forbidden, which led to Anakin keeping secrets, for 1 example. They would have been more like Qui-Gon, who knew times had changed and the Order needed to too. Hope that made sense.

 

^That actually made a lot of sense, and it gave me a new opinion.

 

The entire Jedi Order failed. It wasn't just Obi-1. It was Yoda, their codes, and whatever else that kept them from seeing the real picture. Sidious capitalized on this and brought them down.

 

I think it's a strong comment... In retrospect, he must realize that his pushing Anakin to spy on Palpatine precipitated a lot of what followed. He let Anankin down, the Order let Anakin down. Not any sort of justification for what Anakin went on to do, but it is good there's a least SOME recognition of that in the trilogy.

 

I don't think it's any form of outdated Jedi code. Mace's attitude towards Anakin was anything but helpful. I doubt he comes down so hard on others. Obi Wan failed, but probably anyone would have. How do you contain potentially the most powerfull being in the galaxy? Let's not forget Anakin's own shortcomings.

 

I absolutely disagree. Palpatine uses sly words to ask Anakin to spy on the Jedi. Anakin puts up no objection because he wants to be on the Jedi Council. I believe the Jedi have every right to spy on Palpatine because he uses a supposedly democratic apparatus to pass undemocratic laws that apply to everyone else but him. I agree that Anakin should not have been the one asked to do the spying because his personal loyalty was to Palpatine over democracy, but I was cheering when the Jedi finally decided to do something about the fact that Palpatine was manoeuvring to turn the republic into a dictatorship.

I think what precipitated what happened was Anakin's inability to put the greater good above his own need for control, to accept that life is about change and that dying is a natural part of life. He failed to see that fear was driving his nightmares and he turned them into reality through his actions. He is responsible for his choices. On the ROTS DVD commentary, George Lucas says that it is Anakin's greed, possessiveness and need for power that lead to what happens. Lucas also says that Anakin's loyalty is to Palpatine, not democracy or the republic. Lucas says this in his commentary during the scene between Anakin and Padme before Anakin leaves to go to Mustafar. He says Anakin is lying to her and twisting the facts to rationalize his actions to her and himself.

The Jedi did not teach Luke anything different about attachments than they taught Anakin or any other Jedi candidate. In Return of the Jedi, Luke was willing to die, even when his sister and friends were being threatened by the Emperor, rather than turn to the dark side. Anakin made a different choice because of his need for control over others. He is finally able to see the mistake he made when Luke makes a different choice in front of him.

I respect the fact there are those who will always believe other characters are responsible for Anakin's choices. I am obviously not of that opinion, although I understand how his inability to control the fear he has of losing what he is attached could lead him to do evil. It happens enough in real life. Fear of losing the things we love is something we all have to deal with.

 

I thought this line seemed very disingenuous and condescending. I love Obi-wan's character, but I didn't care for this line at all.

 

Maybe Obi-Wan should have taught Anakin, "Feel...don't think...use your instincts."

Anakin is thinking too much in ROTS (Padme dying, Jedi betraying the Republic) that he just doesn't stop and listen to his feelings.

 

Obi-Wan wasn't dissing him at all, he was being very sencre at that point.

 

I watched it today, without any opinion, and Obi-wan is just confused. He left and everything was fine, he was touched by Anakin's loving words and felt proud.

Too bad Anakin did mean those things.

He was only lying to Obi-wan on Mustafar. He didn't believe those things he was saying. He looks people in the eyes when he means things, and he couldn't look at Obi-wan.

Obi-wan says he failed because somethinghad gone so wrong in such a short time. He was devastated, and that's rare for Obi-wan because he's not a man that emotes easily.

 

in reference to qui gonn treating anakin more like a boss to an employee, he had obi in check.. "that shall be enough out of you"
he was strict, where qgj had no let up
and in aotc anakin would talk back to obi wan in every op he would get..
so in essence
obi wan was a different master than his own, and in turn maybe he was because he didnt want to be like qui gon, and possibly thought being a little less cold and more of a father figure would suffice anakins ability to "think" "use the force".
amazingly

it did not work on anakin
but it did work on luke, and both of them had no fathers to raise them.
go figure.

 

The only person Obi-Wan "dissed" by saying that was himself. He promised Anakin that he?d take Qui-Gon?s place as Anakin?s Master and train him to become a Jedi. He gave it his all to train Anakin to the best that he could, but Anakin was suckered into joining the Dark Side. In Obi-Wan?s mind, he did fail Anakin. Obi-Wan takes responsibility for Anakin?s actions and the path he took because Obi-Wan, as Anakin's mentor, was suppose to keep Anakin away from the Dark Side no matter what.

Obi-Wan wanted Anakin to become a great Jedi Knight, one who would never think about joining the Dark Side ? he failed.

 

I think Obi-wan truely ment he'd failed as a friend. He knew how Anakin felt about Palpatine and he still went along with the counsels idea for Anakin to spy on him. This went against Anakins loyalty to his friends. No it didn't bother Anakin to spy on the counsel for Palps because he felt no real loyalty to the counsel and he felt he should be on the counsel anyway. Anyway after he asks Anakin to spy on Palpatine, he then leaves Anakin alone to be influenced by Palpatine even after Anakin says he really felt he should go with Obi-wan to Utapau and he has a bad feeling about it. I'm not saying his turning is Obi-wan's fault, but you have to admit, if he'd had Obi-wan to turn to at that moment when he realized Palpatine is a Sith Lord he'd have been a lot les likely to turn. Obi-wan could talk sense into him most of the time.

 

^The novel goes in to that a lot. Anakin asks himself "what is Obi-Wan were here" and he wants to talk to Obi-Wan about the situation.