If Darth Vader hadnt been crippled and put into the Suit would he be able to be Redeemed?

Because when he is Crippled by Obi-Wan Kenobi and is set on fire by the Lava fires his body is ruined and he now needs the Cyborg implants and Mechanical Lung and the Darth Vader Suit just to be able to survive and breathe on his own, with the loss of his other Arm and his Legs he could not wield Force Lightning nor could he perform the Acrobatics that Darth Maul,Count Dooku,Yoda and Palpatine were able to perform so easily so he was weighed down and forced to relie on brute power and defense more than speed and dexterity which he uses quite a bit when he fights Obi-Wan on Mustafar, If Darth Vader had won that battle and wasnt crippled and became more powerfull than either Darth Sidious/Palpatine or Yoda then could he ever be redeemed?

In the ROTS Video Game he quickly kills Palpatine but if he really did win the Duel i dont belive that this would happen, Darth Vader would quickly become more powerfull while continuing to train under Darth Sidious with Nothing to limit his power or his knowledge of the Dark Side of the Force, Eventually he would learn how to block and deflect Sith Lightning and would dispose of Emperor Palpatine and become Emperor Darth Vader, with nothing to stop him Vader would become even more powerfull than Palpatine ever was and be much more ruthless as well, he would eventually run into his Children and try to force one of them or perhaps both to train under him, a normal Darth Vader with unlimited power and nobody to answer to would be nearly impossible to redeem and the Prophecy would never be fufilled, and the Children could not overthrow Vader without a Suit to hamper him so he could not be stopped, I dont think that an unsuited Vader could be redeemed, he become as Evil as Palpatine was and reach the point where Redemption is impossible for him anymore, just like Exar Kun and Palpatine did.

 

If Darth Vader had won that battle and wasnt crippled and became more powerfull than either Darth Sidious/Palpatine or Yoda then could he ever be redeemed?

At first, I would say "No" because if he won the battle, Ben would be dead, so there would be no one to train Luke, and without Luke being a jedi, he couldn't help his father back to the light side. But on the other hand the answer is yes, just because the prophecy says he's the chosen one. In my opinion, Vader did not care about "Ultimate Power" like Sids did. He only wanted to save Padme, that was his reason for turning to the dark side. If he had won the battle against Ben, I don't think he would have overthrown Palpatine, he no longer cared anything about that.

Then again, if he had won against Ben, he would have been in the medic room when Padme was having the children, and she might not have died if she had only seen him there. But that's neither here nor there.


Very interesting but there isn't a thread about this already?....

 

NO way.

Vader would have kept him around until he felt he nothing more to learn. I wouldn't give it two years before Darth Sidious would have been destroyed. Unsuited Vader with a year or two of mentorship in the darkside would have resulted in him becomming the greatest Sith Lord that the galaxy had ever known. If he lacked patience in the suit, just think how brash he would be without the physical restrictions... imagine his arrogance. He would have been a tyrant, and much worse than Palpatine.

 

If Vader had killed Obi-Wan on Kenobi, its possible that Yoda would have kept Luke, or have Luke join his sister on Alderaan. Obviously, Obi Wan could get by on Tatooine easier than Yoda could, so without Obi-Wan, who knows if Luke would still been raised by Owen and Beru. However, I think if Kenobi hadn't survived, Yoda wouldn't have gone permanently in exile. He would have hidden, certainly...but in a place that he could "retrieve" Luke when he was ready. I think it would have complicated matters, but I don't think even with a 100% normal Vader that he would have been irredeemable. Assuming he turns on Palpatine, it may have even made it easier to be redeemed.

 

Of course.

 

Unsuited Vader would have most likely gone insane on the awesome power he was wielding. It would be harder to redeem him, but not impossible. It is his destiny after all, it had to happen.

 

I believe that he would have disgraced the Sith no matter what.

 

Vader's motivation for living beyond ROTS, is that he wants power. That's all he cares about. That's the only reason why he wanted to turn Luke. But the unexcepted was that he began to rethink his life and thus turn away from it. But being crippled wasn't what redeemed him. It was knowing that he was ultimately responsible for his wife's death, which haunted him, especially when he looks upon his own son. That's what does it. As well as his son showing him the true path and making him see where he went wrong.

 

If he wasn't crippled, then I believe he would not have had any remorse. He was twisted enough by the darkside to choke his wife, for crying out loud. If he had whacked Kenobi and say the droids got Padme off that lava rock, he would turned into a madman. Without the humility of being made to survive in the suit, he would have fumed even further over her betrayal. Sidious would have been quite useful at that point, to teach him how to harness such power. Once he became more in control; a la ESB Vader... the end would have come sooner; rather than later for 'ol Palpidious.

 

But here's the thing:

If Vader kills Obi-Wan, then he goes back to Padme's ship and takes her to Coruscant, the twins wouldn't have been born anywhere near Yoda, so he couldn't split them up, or even take them himself to train.

Which brings up the question, what would Luke and Leia have been like if they had been raised by Vader? Would Padme have died?

Since Anakin had turned to the Dark Side, I don't think Luke could redeem his father, in fact Luke probably would have been trained in the dark arts himself and by the time of ANH, Vader would be Emperor (having killed Sidious) and Luke would be the one boarding the Tantive IV over Tatooine looking for the stolen plans. Leia would probably be running the Death Star or something.

If both Luke and Leia are Sith Lords (would Anakin have followed the rule of two?) and Vader is Emperor then there can be no redemption...ok, maybe if Padme survives, she could get through to Vader...

But there's a problem, in order to bring balance to the Force the Sith must be destroyed...Vader would have to kill himself AND his own children...and I just don't see it happening.

If Vader hadn't lost to Obi-Wan the prophecy wouldn't have come to pass unless Padme convinced Anakin to turn back to the light BEFORE he began training Luke and Leia in the Dark Arts.

 

I left the kids out of it when I suggested that the Droids got Padme of Mustafar. Children or no children... without the suit there would be no redemption, because as a Sith there was no remorse. The suit was his reminder of failure, it was the thing that never let him forget who he once was... the unlimited potential he once had. Take that away, and there is nothing to regret. Padme would have been nothing more than collateral damage in his quest for more power.

 

The whole thing with Luke and Leia may be a seperate issue, in any case I think it's a topic that deserves it's own thread, so I'm happy to oblige:

Luke and Leia - Raised By Vader

Wasn't sure where it should go so I put it in the Classic Trilogy forum given that IV-VI is all about Luke, Leia and Vader

 

I think If vader was sill in full health it doesnt mean that Ben would have been defeated to death than, maybe he just would have been injured severely, not as severely as Vader was though. Obi wan is great in surviving , . think it will then be very hard to Palpatine and maybe he overthrowws him very quickly.

 

Not Likely. First of all, when Anakin became Vader, he had plenty of experience as a Jedi already. Second, it might be very hard because he could have gone anywhere across the galaxy, and no one could find him. Third, he would have had so much power that he could have finished of Obi-Wan while he had the chance. Finally, he would become the emperor, and if he beat Yoda or Bail Organa to Luke, he could have raised him to have Vader's fate someday.

 

Padme would still die because it didn't matter if she was at the finest hospital, she was dying because her heart was broken. The Polis Massa medical droids were just as effecent as the 2-1B units from ROTS, TESB and ROTJ. Physically, she was fine. Emotionally, not so much. And Vader would still feel guilty that he contributed to her death. He hates himself for it, yet cannot bring himself to end his own life either. So all he has left is his hate and thirst for power. Until Luke gives him what he needs.

 

Yeah but if Vader had won on Mustafar, then Luke and Leia wouldn't have been born on Polis Massa with Yoda, Obi-Wan and Bail deciding their fate. Luke wouldn't have been sent to Tatooine to meet Ben later on and train to be a Jedi before discovering the truth about Vader on Bespin and bringing out the last spark of humanity within Vader on the second Death Star.

If Vader had won on Mustafar, Luke's life would have been entirely different, as would Leia's, they would have been raised by Vader, probably as Sith Lords. There can be no redemption on the Death Star 23 years later, because Luke would probably be just as power-hungry as Vader, having been raised by him.

However, perhaps if Vader witnessed the birth of his children and seen Padme die, then maybe he could have had a change of heart at that point, but certainly not later on.

 

If Vader lost to Obi-wan, who is to say that he would not lose to another leftover Jedi at a slightly later date?

 

umm, who would be left? If Obi-Wan dies on Mustafar, there is only one Jedi left alive that is strong enough to even challenge Vader. I realize you hate Anakin/Vader, and look for every chance you can get to rip him, but, be honest...There are two Jedi left alive that have even a hope of defeating Vader, and if Vader wins on Mustafar, that number gets halved.

 

I never thought I'd see the day you'd defend a Sith, Darth Davi!


EU aside, with Kenobi gone and Padme dead... Darth Vader eventually rules the Galaxy.

 

Don't be so sure. That certainly is one possibility, but Anakin is the type of man that puts his own issues ahead of the galaxy's. I could see him off in some random planet in a cave trying to figure out how to revive Padme from the dead while his Empire crumbles around him.

 

No way. Sidious would have taught him that his only companion is the Dark Side, and that he will have no need for anything else in his life now that he was married to the Order of the Sith. Power would have consumed him, and with the troops loyal to him (he was favored by the clones for his penchent for front-line fighting) he would have ruled the galaxy with his mechno-fist.

 

Well, to be fair, I do have the word DARTH in my nickname...and OT Vader is my favorite SW character ever.

But, I am inclined to hypothetically agree with you. Assuming Kenobi dies, Anakin leaves Mustafar with Padme, who is still dying. I think either way, Padme ends up dead...but Kenobi's survival or not determines who ends up with Luke and Leia. In this case, without Kenobi there to fetch her, and bring her to the asteroid base where the twins are born in ROTS, the twins instead are born in the presence of two Sith Lords. As I argued in the thread about whether the Jedi made the right call in confronting Palpatine and Vader, if the Sith get their hands on infant Luke and Leia, the galaxy is quite simply screwed. Assuming Vader doesn't suffer any further injuries in his life that would make him no better off than he actually was, and manages to keep all of his limbs, He is deadly. Vader, completely healthy, with full Force potential, is Palpatine's better. Anakin knows it, Palpatine knows it. Perhaps that would lead Palpatine to trying to off Vader to keep his power, I dunno. But, overall, if Kenobi dies on Mustafar, the Sith have a much better run ruling the galaxy.

 

Indeed.

Now can we get back to normal ?

 

yes. You remind me of a broken clock. That better? LOL