If Luke Skyalker is so powerful, then why is he such a wimp.........

Before I am overwhelmed with the wrath of enraged luke fans, let me state that I am not bashing the character-merely curious as to how he was represented in the eu.

As was recently discussed in the most powerful force users and people in the galaxy topic-Luke was unanimously in the top 3.
Yet in comparison with some of the other masters, his track record against dark jedi/sith is fairly spotty.

In my opinion the only time we really see luke show any force power/creativity and defeat dark jedi was Dark Empire. Sure DE is despised by any, but atleast luke is characterized as a skilled jedi.

In CoPL- Luke has some intersting force powers as well from healing, levitating etc.

But in most of the other books, he is shown preety incompetent.
Zahn though a great writter was the worst. It seemed luke could never do anything with the force other then block bolts with his lightsaber.
In half of luke's lightsaber battles in zahn's books, I never even remember luke simply using the force to grab multiple lightsabers drawn on him.

In vision of the future- when luke aids the Noghri against the bandits. Luke struggles to use his lightsaber to block a bolt. In that much time the noghri had taken out all the combatants.

Would it have been that hard to use a force push? Or to grab the blasters. Heck we could have had luke help the noghri in hand to hand against the bandits. I guess zahn follows stackpole's view that luke is not much of a hand-to-hand fighter?

As seen is New Rebellion (Dolph), Rebel Stand (Lord Nyax) and even against Joruus in the Last command, luke is fairly useless against dark jedi.

After all his scirmishes with Darth Vadee and Lumiya in the comics, you would think he would put up a better fight against Joruus?

Sure we can use the all powerful argument-but that never stopped the authors regarding yoda, anakin skywalker (solo) or even recently jacen solo.

Zahn for all his postering on force users being too powerful had Joruus do some preety incredible feats. Not simply power wise but some creative force tricks that Luke could not even duplicate as a jedi master in the Hand of thrawn series.

I am just curious as to why? In njo we had the same trend until say the last book -TUF.
Though it was an attempt to show luke as all-powerful, it seemed forced. It seemed a obvious attemp just to satisfy the Luke fanboys.

None of the other top jedi/sith had such challenges beating powerful opponents.

 

one name comes to mind for the reason.............. DEL-RAY

 

In The Last Command, he was fighting his clone, which was extremely disorienting. Also remember that Joruus C'baoth was a clone of a very powerful Jedi Master of the Old Jedi Order, but dark side and insane. Think terrorists - they would use WMDs without worrying about starting a nuclear war that would consume the Earth because they hate the "infidels" so much. C'baoth is like that. He has no reason and no self-control - to paraphrase Han, Vader without the manners.

 

also Zahn likes to write luke more resourceful, which in my opinion is make him like Mcgyver instead of using his force powers. I like KJA, Kathy Tyers, James Luceno, Steve Perry, and Troy Denning's characrizations much better then Zahn's.

The main reason they don't have luke flaunt his power is because there wouldn't be a challenge for other characters to face. The editors needed him to not use his powers much so they can let the new generation have a swing at things.

but EU wise after DE luke felt he needed to hold back his power in the force, since his fear of the darkside. he felt the more he relied on the force the more he would be tempted, so in TUF luke realizes it is safe for him to use his full power.

 

Well, look at it this way. If Luke was super powerful, then everyone would complain that Luke is too strong, that the other characters never gte to do anything blah blah blah. In other words, Luke would become the new Mara.

 

Most of the authors felt they couldn't make Luke too powerful, because it would then justify making his opponents too powerful to be able to be "interesting" for the battles. And that's a valid view, to a certain extent. Quite understandable, as guaranteed victory tends to be rather blah. I agree that he should be immensely more powerful (see TJK, for example, where he is well-portrayed IMO), but also recall that in those fights he was usually at a severe disadvantage - like, y'know, having his X-wing literally explode from under him. Rebel Dream, he was still limited by his unwillingness to open himself to the full power of the Force, hobbled by his fear of the dark side. Which is, if you think about it, a little bit of the dark-side controlling him anyway...

Also, you're forgetting about the other side of the story. What about some of the cool stuff he displays in TCS, however full of Waru-ish nonsense it was. Or the stuff he learns in BFC, or the way he handles himself in the Corellian Trilogy...

Hahahaha. Dude, this started in Luke's encounters with Joruus C'baoth in TTT, continued in books like The New Rebellion and the Hand of Thrawn. the very first stuff BANTAM published. Del-Rey (note the spelling, btw) just continued the trend.

- Keralys

 

Master_Keralys



Hahahaha. Dude, this started in Luke's encounters with Joruus C'baoth in TTT, continued in books like The New Rebellion and the Hand of Thrawn. the very first stuff BANTAM published. Del-Rey (note the spelling, btw) just continued the trend.

well Bantam had him powerful in Most of the books, it just seems Zahn just doesn't like the force. Del-Rey had him mostly doing nothing in NJO. whoops forgive my typo.

also what did luke do in TCS ?

 

I wouldn't say Zahn hates the Force itself. Just it being used to do SuperDuperUberUBER stuff easily. Because of that, he wrote Luke as being more of an inteligent hero, as opposed to just some guy with unlimited power.

As a reader, given the choice between stories that use force minimalism or those with Darksaber-Star-Destroyer-solar-system-flingingness, I'd gladly take the former, so I appreciate Zahn's efforts.

 

i wouldn't mind if there was a balance between the two.

 

Don't get me started on TCS!

The Son of Skywalker, student of Obi-Wan & Yoda; and a shinny alien w/ "mental powers" has him w/ his tongue hanging out. Obi-wan should have taken a closer look at the kid next to him when he referred to the "weak-minded".

I'm thinking EU writers weren't given the room to make Luke look to powerful, should he ever run the risk of over-shadowing the Chosen-One.

And in TJK, he seems much more out of sorts....but he's still the go-to guy until Jacen takes over I guess.

 

I was ready to declare all-out war against the herectic, skywalker-singh, who would dare malign Luke's good name....

but after reading skywalker-singh's well-thought out explanation, I see his point, and share his lament about the inconsistency with authors, and their anti-Luke bias...

 

See, I actually think Luke's work in HTTE, without aid of the Force, is the ultimate compliment given to his character. I've said it before here, but Karrde's amazement at the guy gives me the chills.

Luke is not merely a superhero (of sorts), but an intelligent and resourceful man by that point. I could think of no more well-rounded hero.

 

True say, what did zahn have against the guy?

 

It is partly in the character interpretation by the author. But I do like how Zahn wrote Luke as not merely relying on the Force, but displaying his other skills. TJK did a good job of showing both his immense ability and his intelligence, save the semi-Palpatine moment he had there.

 

I do agree with skywalker-singh, because Luke has been made to lok rather flimsy. In this new book by Denning, not just Luke, but the jedi and force powers were expanded very well and I look forward to more. Sue, at the official site stated that we are going to see more of Luke unleashed, which is fine by me.

 

I disagree to some extent.
With zahn -luke had trouble using the force to grab a blaster.

I do not know what skills we are talking about. With zahn's characterization luke is a naive (still somewhat wet behind the ear) farmboy, not shown as much of a hand-to-hand fighter or a very strong personality.
Heck Luke was willing to join the empire with mara-leaving all his responsibilities.

Remember everyone in HTTE when luke is first attacked by the noghri. Can you imagine a more unique situation that would have had us drooling, then luke engaging in hand-to-hand combat with the noghri. Imagine Alema's fight with han/leia's noghri bodyguards in TJK, then imagine luke and the noghri.

If anything zahn made luke do things in the most boring manner possible.
In the hand of thrawn duology- would it not have been more interesting if he was using the force to levitate objects at the chiss rather then simply robotlike block blasters with his lightsaber.
And I do not want to get started on the Luke battle with the droidakar (spelling) in survivor's quest.

 

WTF???

People complaining, that Luke Skywalker doesn't live up to the masturbatory fantasies of some kind of UBERJEDI, when nowhere in the SW-movies we see Jedi levitate to the ground after their starfighter is destroyed, nowhere castles out of thin air are build with the force or large fleets are destroyed via force-storm or that they destroy a droideka with a force-push.

Hand to hand-combat? This is SW, not the fu...ng Matrix (god, what a bad movie )

 

Han does plenty of hand to hand combat. There is no reason that Luke can't do it either. Jedi are supposed to know a bit of non weapon combat.

 

Remember everyone in HTTE when luke is first attacked by the noghri. Can you imagine a more unique situation that would have had us drooling, then luke engaging in hand-to-hand combat with the noghri. Imagine Alema's fight with han/leia's noghri bodyguards in TJK, then imagine luke and the noghri.

Interesting point. Of course, I think we can stipulate that at this point Alema is not exactly following the Jedi way, right?

If anything zahn made luke do things in the most boring manner possible.

Disagree, but that's a matter of opinion, and I respect yours.

In the hand of thrawn duology- would it not have been more interesting if he was using the force to levitate objects at the chiss rather then simply robotlike block blasters with his lightsaber.
And I do not want to get started on the Luke battle with the droidakar (spelling) in survivor's quest.

I did think the droideka scene was a bit ridiculous, but I thought part of that had to do with the droid's positioning with respect to the hallway.

 

He held a Force illusion for most of the book, drastically changing his appearance and HOLDING it that way. Mind, that was before he learned the Fallanassi tricks, so he was basically mind-tricking EVERYONE around him constantly. As far as his getting sucked in by Waru, yeah, that was crappy, but so was the whole book. I was just showing a case of him using his abilities.

In the NJO, it was never really a matter of power; he quickly came to dominate any battles with the Yuuzhan Vong. He pushed a singularity around with his mind. I can't think of any instance save the battle against Lord Nyax where he seemed underpowered. Not one. It was a matter of hesitancy to go out and hand over a solid butt-kicking to the Vong for fear of the dark side.

I agree that more consistency would have been nice. I think Zahn underplayed it, and KJA obviously overplayed it a little - but he likes superheroes, so that's how he wrote the Jedi. A balance would have been nice.

And for everyone who makes such a big deal out of Luke and Mara taking so long against the droideka - doesn't it strike you as odd that Luke and Mara are bashed for that, when Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, two of the most powerful (and skilled at combat) Jedi of the OJO flat ran when confronted with one? And not just ran, but Force sped? So next time, bash them, too.

Nope. You're misinterpreting. What Zahn characterized him as (and he even rather directly states this from other characters' POVs several times) is idealistic. It's one of the areas that Zahn contrasts and uses as foils Luke and Mara. Other characters, such as Karrde (who certainly knew what he was talking about) were quite impressed with Luke's resourcefulness and toughness when it came to little things like, y'know, fighting his way through a jungle and then half an Imperial garrison's worth of troops on Myrkr without the Force.

Like I said, I agree that Zahn underpowered him. But not as badly as people like to think... sometimes I think everything is an excuse for Zahn-bashing around here.

- Keralys

 

Zahn's goal ultimately is to emasculate Skywalkers, so his talentless ***** can be the queen of the universe.

 

*sigh*

I knew when I read it that this thread was going to turn into a Zahn-bashing/Mara-hating one... Thanks, T_F, for proving me right.

Can we perhaps focus back on Luke?

- Keralys

 

Part of the problem is almost all of the Post-ROTJ material was written before it was known Anakin was the chosen one and had the most potential of any Jedi ever. Since Luke is his son, he should have the same potential. None of this was known until a few years ago, so many people (like Zahn) probably assumed Luke was an average or slightly above average Jedi, while we now know he has the potential to be the greatest of all time.

 

If I were going to do something like that, I'd pick a cooler character. Like Nien Nunb, for instance.

 

Good question