Lit If the Yuuzhan Vong came to the new canon, what would you want the same/different?

If the Yuuzhan Vong came to the new canon, what would you want the same and what would you want different?

Some traits of the Yuuzhan Vong that come to mind:
*theocratic, devotion to a pantheon of gods and what their priests say
*seem outside of the Force, they were "banished" to a different of the spectrum
*only use Biotech with no machinery, organic ships, fanatic crusade against droids
*embrace transhumanism with how they shaped themselves - but otherwise near-human, resembling Elves or Orcs
*from another galaxy
*fearless in facing death
*seek to embrace pain
*xenophobic
*caste-based
*valued family and honor and their gods
*militant empire
*want to massacre many non-Vong, convert all, and put their species clearly on-top
*supreme overlord at the top
*driven by desire of conquest and religious fervor
*desire to terraform worlds like Coruscant back to jungle paradises


Also, more than the traits specifically, they wanted an enemy that was as "alien" to the GFFA as possible, and also that challenged generic Star Wars as much as possible to force it to re-examine itself, grow, and evolve -- both in-universe and out-of-universe.
(And now that generic Star Wars has already grown and evolved since 1999-2003 when this came out... and so has our society... a new version of something completely "alien" that would shake things up and force the new normal to re-examine itself, grow, and evolve would be a little different)





Other "alien invader" species or more elaborated alien races, for possible inspiration:

The Yevetha were also xenophobic, caste-based, religious, valued honor and family, and were fearless when facing death. Vaguely humanoid but very reptlillian and angular.

Ssi-Ruuk seemed more like a pulpy, minor threat, but were interesting. They were also caste-based though based on skin color, xenophobic, religious and felt the need to consecrate worlds for religious purposes, and they used mechanical technology to suck the life out of living beings to use as electrical energy that powered their technology. Basically vampire Dinosaurs in Space.

The Nagai and the Tofs from the Firefirst satellite galaxy.The Nagai were skilled in violence but very honorable, driven to invade because they were being driven out by the Tofs. The Tofs were incapable of compassion, and very violent conquerors who lusted for battle, were misogynistic towards women of all species, and very ritualistic. Both humanoids, Nagai resembling dark elves more.

The Vagaari were a roving band of warriors in the Unknown Regions, nomadic conquerors and slavers with no permanent bases or homeworlds, and known to use deception and be manipulative while remaining in the shadows. Vaguely humanoid.

The Grysk are newer, and are also warrior nomads. They enslave, and have some form of mind control.

The Lugubreaa were basically horders of near-mindless land sharks, just driven by hunger. Once reaching a certain age, those that survive it become more sentient and individual.

The Charon also revered death; their cult/religion viewed life as an abomination. Violent, emotionless. They also used bio-organic technology. Insectoid.

Mnggal-mnggal was a collective hivemind of ooze that was the single ocean on a planet, and could send pieces of itself outward to parasitically mind-control its hosts.

The Chiss have more rational and calculating near-humans, run by a more aristrocratic and cerebral version of an empire.

The Hutts were once an expansionist empire. They forced other species to serve them and their desire for wealth and the comforts of life, but otherwise let them be.

There's the Sith species, though they really only became dark and expansive after the banished Dark Jedi conquered and ruled them. After that, they became a generic warrior civilization, with a strong religion and social hierarchy with priest-kings and one emperor at the top, made of dark-side rulers, some of their army also being dark-siders but most as regular imperial grunts. Were inward-focusing for thousands of years, but in later times became expansionist and then were almost entirely wiped out. Red-skinned humanoids.

The Killiks were hive-minded, and could absorb others into their hives and many joined willingly. Communal hive society, each "nest" basically one individual, constant mental contact. Mostly peaceful, but sometimes a new sentient absorbed would unbalance them into becoming expansionist. The main species was very insectoid.

The Silentium were a starfish droid race built around symmetry and order.

The Abominor were an asymmetrical droid race based on chaos.

The Kwa were a race of mystics, that used Infinity-Gate technology instead of hyperdrives. Reptillian.

The Gree were a race of technologists, that used Infinity-Gate technology instead of hyperdrives. Octopi-based species.

The Columni were hyperintelligent and arrogant. They looked down on civilizations that had physical labor. Vague humanoid-based species, resembling the Gray Alien trope except with even larger heads and weaker bodies.

The Rakata,were ancient conquerors, highly speciest, and used the dark side of the Force to generate the electricity for their mechanical technology. Cannibals, conquerors, slavers, they also terraformed whole worlds and created new species. They searched for worlds that were strong in the Force to expand their Infinite Empire, but they had a lot of internal strife and competition that helped lead to their downfall. Amphibious near-humanoids with a tall conical head and two eye-stalks on the sides.

 

My answer is simple: I do not want to see the Yuuzhan Vong in the new canon, at all. I don't trust them to do the Yuuzhan Vong right. Let them stay where they are, where they belong.

If they come to the new canon anyway, I don't think I would be able to bring myself to watch/read whatever they appear in.

 

My favorite parts about the Vong stories was how they had their own detailed culture and terminology for inventions, social classes, ideas, etc. I even came to miss that after the Vong books.

They don't necessarily need to bring back the Vong to do something similar. I'm not asking for a repeat biopunk coral-based society, but they could introduce another species or a planet with as much detail. It would have to be significantly different than the GFFA ones, because otherwise it doesn't quite work. It may also require more than one book to flesh out. There have been some great and really inventive new planets in the new novels/comics, but none have reached the Vong-level of detail yet. Zahn's Chiss Ascendency works to some extent since they largely operate outside the known Galaxy and have their own system of space travel, but the cultural shock factor that came with meeting the Vong for the first time isn't there (throwing mini-blackholes at enemies, new lexicon for everything, etc).

Although I have to say as a minor aside, playing SWTOR I was impressed how close they came with the Voss as a complex dual society with novel technology and beliefs. But that is now old, not new canon. And a video game has more time to delve into a planet's society than a single novel or comic, which tend to move at a faster pace.

 

If the Vong were ever brought into the mainline Canon, make them consistent.

Have the culture, the mindset, the religion, and most importantly their role vis-a-vis the Force hammered out before a single word is put to paper. Can they be sensed, or can't they. What Force powers work on them, what Force powers don't. Have everything fleshed out in a sort of series bible before a word is written and have the writers stick to it.

 

Also, it is not required to paralyse or make your heroes stupid in order to boost your very active villains.

 

What would show they were being "done right"?

Do you think the Vong as they were would still be as big of a culture shock in-universe? What do you think worked best for that last time, if you think the biotech angle is unnecessary?

 

They wouldn't have the courage to go all out on them like they did in the EU

 

"Life creates the Force and makes it grow." Life and the Force are inextricably linked. Nothing that is alive can be immune to the Force. Everything that lives is present in the Force. That whole concept just doesn't work.

 

Therein lies the rub: is there any scenario in which importing the Yuuzhan Vong into canon, in any form, pleases anyone? NJO purists will rail that the Vong aren't being "done right" if any aspect of their intricately detailed culture and identity is altered; canon fans are unlikely to see the need for the kind of heavy-duty shake-up that "all-out" Vong represent at this early stage of new canon's lifecycle; and plenty of Legends-only fans will simply be outraged that the Vong are being brought into canon in any form. They're a no-win scenario: like Mara Jade, the Vong evoke such strong and varied opinions within the fandom that when it comes to bringing them into canon, the only winning move may be to just... not.

Nothing wrong with a good alien invasion storyline, but frankly I'd rather see the powers that be use the far less controversial Grysks (who are already positioned for that) or the Nagai (who we'll probably be seeing soon enough anyway, given canon's penchant for resurrecting classic Marvel characters) or even some new threat unique to canon, and leave the Vong in the past where they belong.

 

Also when and with which cast do you do it with? There's no space for it in the 1-9 films. Can't be before, far future later? Perhaps bit then it has to make you care about a new set of characters while blowing their world up.

 

I think them being on another part of the "spectrum" - like how ultraviolet/infrared are still light but invisible to us - could still work.

You could say the same about Thrawn, the Nightsisters, Mandalore, Darth Vader/Anakin in Rogue One and Ahsoka, etc.

 

They shouldn't beyond winks and nods such as UFO sightings that are never confirmed, conspiracy theories about people being Yuuzhan Vong in disguise, etc.

 

They’d probably have to be post-ST if they were going to be brought in and used to full effect. Which,I suppose, would be a refreshing change of pace from the Empire/First Order.

 

Consistency was the biggest weakness of the NJO. Too many authors, too many books, too tight a release schedule.

They would not use the Vong in such a way again. There is just not enough general nostalgia about the NJO to convince them to recreate it in the new canon.

I suspect, when they shatter the canon and introduce the multi-verse to the brand properly, they will bring the Vong in episodically.

This allows for them to be a big baddy, but brief in effect and narrow in scope.

 

If the Force is life and the Yuuzhan Vong are alive and you cannot see them in the Force then is the problem with the Yuuzhan Vong or is it with your perceptions

 

Keep them legends, dont need the space orcs in canon. And the vong conflicts with the idea of the force so Vong shoundt exist.

 

For what? so Rey Palpatine alone can defeat them?

 

That be an improvement.

 

I don't think anything really can. The Yuuzhan Vong were the product of a series of unique events, terrible, species-wide traumas that shaped and made them. If you drop all of that, then they are Yuuzhan Vong in name only. Their obsession with pain. The merciless, blood-thirsty gods and all that mythology that they created to define and give meaning to their suffering. The reasons for their hatred of machinery, etc.

I think there is a similar reason we haven't seen Mara Jade in the new canon so far, despite her being such a popular character: Because her story is intricately linked to Luke's, and you can't duplicate these conditions in the new canon without a lot of modifications.

 

On this, me and Sarge are 100% in accord.

 

Considering that canon has had some very weird ****, I don’t think it’s “above” using the Vong (Hell, Filoni was a breath away from doing them in TCW).

But the thing with the Vong is that they’re a deliberate existential challenge to the traditional Star Wars narrative, in-universe and out. The franchise and the people guiding it aren’t at a place where delving into that kind of divisive narrative is desirable for them.

The “Why they won’t do/why they shouldn’t do the Vong” aside....to answer the thread’s question, if they were to hypothetically bring in the Vong then they ought to keep all of it, even the uncomfortable grotesque stuff. It all feeds into itself and what the Vong are about and what they represent thematically. I’d say specifically they would have to be introduced post-ST, to keep the impact of their role in the galaxy and to conform with some of the ideas the NJO was playing with, new generation of heroes having to confront a completely new threat etc...

 

Of course its not like George Lucas has never done retcons like for example in the Prequels changing the force with midichlorians or TCW show with mortis or Disney in Ahsoka show saying that anyone can be a Jedi now

 

Not retcons.

 

You dont know what retcon is

 

The Hutt's are resistant to Mind Tricks
Yslamiri can deaden people's connections to the Force while inside of their bubble. To protect themselves from Vronskyrs.
Natural Selection.
A species so in tune with a Force Sensitive planet, that they were stripped of their connection to the Force when they turned war-like, and have to find their way back?

The Force is greater than what we thought it was. Love the idea.