"If u strike me down I'll become more powerful than u can imagine"--is it now clear what this means?

"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." These are Obi-Wan's last words just before Vader cuts him in two and his body vanishes, and for me, and probably a lot of fans, the logic behind Obi-wan's assertion is far from obvious. At first glance, becoming an ethereal Force ghost unable to interact with physical reality just does not seem to be all that equivalent to having "great power." This post will attempt to shed light on the real meaning behind Obi-Wan's words.

The 4-part Yoda arc that closes out the Clone Wars series I would argue has finally clarified, after all this time, the meaning of Ben's words. In the arc, Qui-Gon contacts Yoda from beyond the grave, and he tells Yoda that he too must learn how to live on after death. To learn this ability, Yoda is forced to pass many trials, and during these trials, it seems to me that the meaning of Ben's words are ultimately made clear.

In one trial, Yoda faces the "shadow" of himself in combat. This shadow Yoda represents the violent, aggressive, evil impulses within Yoda. The shadow Yoda claims that he is part of Yoda's true self, but Yoda repeatedly denies this. Arguing that he is part of Yoda, Yoda's shadow self taunts him, saying: "And yet you spend your days in the decadence of war, and with that, I grow inside you."

The shadow Yoda's argument illustrates the inherent paradox of waging a war to achieve peace: one must act in violent, even murderous ways to achieve an ultimately good end. In this way, evil can force the good to adopt awful means in the quest to achieve peace--means that are arguably evil and very Sith-like in their nature. The good Jedi apparently have no way around this. If they don't use violence to defend themselves, then the Jedi would be wiped out and the beliefs that make them good would die with them. This fact is what makes Qui-Gon's new teachings so important, and this becomes clear when we see that Yoda's perspective on the war has changed by the end of his journey. When asked if his journey gave him any insight into winning the war, Yoda replies: "No longer certain that one ever does win a war am I. For in fighting the battle, the bloodshed already lost we have."

Yoda then suggests there is another path: "Yet, open to us, a path remains that unknown to the Sith is. Through this path, victory we may yet find. Not victory in the Clone Wars, but victory for all time." The path Yoda is speaking of is clearly the ability to live on after death, but the question remains as to how exactly retaining one's consciousness after death would achieve this goal.

Taking into account the aforementioned dialogue and the entire plot of this arc, here's my interpretation of what Yoda has learned. By gaining the power to live on after death and continue interacting with the living, the Jedi have learned of a non-violent way to guarantee that their beliefs can be passed on. In that way, the Jedi have become more "powerful" than the Sith. If the Sith are destroyed, they have no way to pass on their beliefs. Their beliefs would die off with them. However, now that Yoda has gained this new power, the Jedi will always be able "pass on what they have learned" no matter what happens to them in the physical world. Thus, the Jedi have learned an ability that guarantees that they can preserve their beliefs through solely peaceful means no matter what adversarial circumstances might arise.

(I know that this post involves a lot of content from the Clone Wars series and a little from the PT, but I thought that the story of Yoda's trials has such a strong connection to the original trilogy that people who don't follow the series but are into the movies would want hear about this arc. I also thought this arc is important because Lucas places the TV show on the same canon level as the films, so this arc most likely represents Lucas's vision of what Obi-Wan words in ANH mean. If you could leave a link to this thread in the Classic Trilogy forum and then move the thread to the television forum, I would appreciate it. This would allow both fans of the OT and TCW to discuss this topic if they are interested.)

 

I don't like this arc nor do I entirely agree with your sentiments as expressed. However that is one of the best written and well-thought posts I've seen in all my time here. Well spoken, Sir.

 

Very well-written and thought-out.

 

i believe he meant as a sacrifice. for what it would mean to luke and the events it would set in motion.

 

Great thread topic.

I felt that perhaps Yoda was speaking from the perspective of the Force itself. That in achieving this ability the Jedi had provided a sort of bridge between living beings and the Living Force in such a way that had not previously existed, and that this victory was not only for the Jedi and their beliefs, but a sort of evolution for all sentient beings in the galaxy.

 

I can leave a redirect, but it will eventually get bumped down the page - I'll set it not to expire, though (redirects are usually set to expire after 24 hours).

 

I always interpreted Obi-Wan's strike me down statement to mean that as a ghost, he could always guide Luke in his fight against the Empire.

 

As others have said, I always thought it meant that Obi Wan would be able to continue his training of Luke. Ben knew he wouldn't be hampered by old age or weakness, or even space/distance. Ben could be there for Luke when he was needed, as we saw during the Battle of Yavin.

However, I would like to introduce a secondary reason as well. Don't forget that Obi Wan is still putting up a fight when he taunts Vader with that phrase. It isn't til later in the fight, when Obi Wan sees Luke and notices he is watching that Obi Wan finally gives himself up. He wants Luke to see Vader cut him down. The secondary meaning to Obi Wans become more powerful line is that by seeing Vader kill Ben, the action ignites a fire in Luke. Luke's memory of Obi Wan ensures Luke will carry on with the fight against the empire. Obi Wan transforms from a physical man to an Idea, and sometimes an Idea is more powerful than any man.

It also starts the debate as to whether Obi Wan and Yoda wanted Luke to kill Vader outright by feeding him little white lies about Vader, rather than the path Luke chose.

 

Mikeximus, Purplerain, and the rest,

I think my main point may have been lost in the wordiness of my post. I agree that it was obvious that Ben could continue to be Luke's teacher by becoming a Force ghost, and I also think it is obvious that this is a useful ability that Vader wasn't aware of.

My main point about the Yoda arc is that it made clear why this is the "greatest power" and why it would guarantee a "victory for all time." The Yoda arc made it clear why this was so. It revealed something new--that just by being involved in warfare Yoda was betraying his beliefs to some degree, and until this arc, I don't think it was ever made clear that just by fighting in combat the Jedi were diminishing themselves. That is a new insight. This is made clear when the shadow Yoda said to him: "And yet you spend your days in the decadence of war, and with that, I grow inside you." Yoda clearly agrees with the shadow Yoda's conclusion. That's why at the end of the arc Yoda says: "No longer certain that one ever does win a war am I. For in fighting the battle, the bloodshed already lost we have."

So, my main point is that living on after death is an ability that matches the Jedi teachings. Becoming a teacher is not typically thought to be a powerful ability. However, being able to preserve your beliefs forever, even after your death, is a powerful thing if you are a Jedi. The reason it is powerful is that it allows your beliefs to live on forever through non-violent means, and non-violence is a core belief for the Jedi, especially now that we know that fighting in combat diminishes a Jedi.

I agree with you that Ben's death serves a strong plot purpose that helps to lead to the ultimate defeat of the Empire and Palpatine. Until the Yoda arc, my view was that its important plot purpose was that it allowed Ben to tell Luke to trust his instincts and shoot the torpedo without guidance controls, and without that, the DS wouldn't have been destroyed, and most likely Luke and Han would've been killed, and Yavin 4 destroyed.

I hadn't thought of your idea before, but I agree that it did set a fire under Luke, and in that way, gave him motivation. However, from the perspective I'm taking, I'm not simply talking about the Saga and the defeat of the Empire. Yoda's new power would prevent the Jedi order from ever going extinct since Yoda could theoretically come back 10,000 years in the future and teach new Force-users the teachings of the Jedi.

 

Yoda's "victory for all time" statement parallels perfectly as well with Obi-Wan's words to Luke in ANH: "The Force will be with you, always."