Imperial Knights Discussion Thread

In Legacy #6, the Imperial Knight's have burst onto the scene and firmly established themselves as "not just canon fodder." We're also being given insight - slowly but surely - into their beliefs and principles. In this thread, I hope we can give the IKs the treatment other Star Wars organizations have gotten, most notably other Imperial ones: discussion, debate, and speculation as to their structure, practices, philosophy, modus operandi, and standing within the greater Star Wars universe.

 

Jon Ostrander has explicitly stated that he considers the Imperial Knights to be Jedi. The only difference is they favor an Imperial system over a Republican one. This is in contrast to the more outlandish theories we've heard spread about them that they are non-believers in the Force or Potenium followers.

We also know they have uniform lightsabers.

It also seems that because Marasiah and Roan have different outfits that the Imperial Knights we've seen aren't the full extent of the organization but they are probably just Imperial Knights that happen to be members of the Royal Guard.

 

Sia's speech to Cade seems to illustrate that a bit more clearly than Legacy #0 did.

I was thinking about this in terms of LotF, the other day. Leia is fully considered a Jedi, but has betrayed the GA. Depending on how LotF turns out, I wonder if Leia has anything to do with this split...

Anyway, in terms of hierarchy, Draco calls the Emperor "Master" in this issue. Struck me as interesting.

'cept for Sia's blue blade.

Good theory. As far as the rest of the organization they - surprisingly enough - don't seem to have very close ties to the Imperial Mission.

 

Now that's an interesting thought...


...and one would assume that means that she goes to the Empire...



..Exile indeed

 

What's really interesting to me is a number of questions...

1. Just how many of the Imperial Knights stayed with Roan Fel? (Jon has been fairly blanket in saying that Roan Fel is served by the Imperial Knights but does this mean that they all joined him or did some stay but by the nature of that choice, they became Sith?)

2. How numerous are the Imperial Knights?

Jon has stated that the Sith and Jedi still both exist in vast numbers. Yet, all we've seen thus far is 5 Imperial Knights with no indications of more (Actually 6 but one IK has been toasted).

3. Why are relations so damned friendly?

Shado was downright differential to Marasiah Fel when frankly you'd think they'd at least have some hostility to the Sith's collaborators in the Jedi's destruction.

4. Is Roan Fel Dark or Not?

A question that might be worthy of asking.

 

Tsk Tsk, ThrawnRocks...are we forgetting that the Galactic Alliance is comprised of the Republic, plus the Hapes Consortium, plus the Empire? The Empire's still part of the GA at this point.

If they're Jedi, then it's either break and join the Sith or leave. There can't be a middle ground there, not now that the Sith are really in control.

Shado was also part of the Imperial Mission before the Jedi picked him up, so I'd say the good relations go both ways. I assume the Jedi realize that the Fels were misguided.

Judging by how many times people have jumped all over you with vehement "No"s, then maybe not.

 

Funny, I read that as the Jedi split formally and never again serve any government willingly again.

 

While the Empire is part of the GA, it remains a semi-independant state, with it's own fleet and stuff, similar to what we see of Hapes in DN. Note how Corellia is not allowed to have it's own independent fleet and defense forces, while Hapes, and one would assume the Empire, are. It appears that member states have a lot more independence than planets/sectors represented in the Senate.

 

Well my point is that it's not a defection, which is one of the reasons - I'd imagine - that relations are so good between the Empire and the Jedi in Legacy.

 

I thought that the problem with Corellia was NOT in Corellia having it's own fleet and defense force, but was in Corellia wanting to support their own fleet and defense force to the detriment of any contribution to the GFFA fleet and defense force. This may be a spoiler for those without Tempest, but Tenel Ka send the GA two Hapan fleets for the navy. Certainly the Imperial Remnant could do no less than Hapans. The problem with Corellia is that it wanted the rights and priviledges without making any of the contributions.

 

Come to think of it, why don't the Jedi already have large numbers operating within the Empire and the Hapans? I know they serve the government, but the Imps and the Amazons are part of that government for the first time.

 

In the beginning of the Legacy era? Because neither the Imperials nor the Hapans have much trust or love for Jedi and the number of Jedi is small enough 10 years post-Vong that they probably have their hands full just sending Jedi where they are wanted and welcomed. I doubt very much the Consortium or the Remnant sends requests for Jedi assistance or mediation.

Speaking of the number of Jedi, who the kriff is training the new ones since NJO? None of the 'well-known' masters seem to have apprentices in LotF nor since NJO.

 

None of the 'well-known' masters seem to have apprentices in LotF nor since NJO.

Keep in mind that Knights can train apprentices too.

 

I'm still thinking it's going to be Jaina who ends up at the Empire. Just because of the twin vs twij thing. Jaina will need her own Empire to be a home base. There is no way she'll be able to stay with the GA with Jacen running things. Speculation on my part though.

 

Oh, I agree. Jaina needs to marry Jag, after all. My point is that it has recently occured to me - and I haven't finished reading Tempest, yet - that Leia may leave for the Empire as well, perhaps even first, convincing Jaina to defect with her.

I didn't mean aid, necessarily, but rather just emissaries. People stationed within the Empire or the Hapes Consortium to serve as diplomats, representatives of the GA, and - more importantly - to train citizens in the ways of the Force.

 

I can just see the (un)lucky Knight that draws one of those assignments. I honestly don't see that happening without the GFFA Senate legislating the requirement that member states accept such emissaries. Tenel Ka has enough problems with anti-Jedi sentiment against her without having a Jedi emissary underfoot stirring up more. Depending on what propaganda the IR citizens, military, and government still believe about the Jedi plus Palpatine's/Vader's reign of terror, they could make a Jedi emissary extremely unwelcome very quickly. Besides which, both states would view any mandatory stationing of a Jedi emissary within their sovereignty as the equivalent of a spy or GA secret police.

 

Frankly, it's interesting to imagine how the many humiliations the Jedi have fostered on the galaxy are being recieved by the average citizen. As the Prequels illustrated, the Jedi Knights were brought down primarily by everyone presuming that they weren't really needed and were an elist society that had been given too much power by the Old Republic. When they turned on the Jedi, they found themselves enslaved by the Empire.

It took a Jedi Knight to defeat both Darth Vader and the Emperor, destroy the first Death Star, and win countless smaller battles against the Empire that pretty much immortalized his legend then. Then Luke and company defeat the Reborn Emperor which is a thousand times WORSE than the original Emperor ever was and whom laid waste to the Yuuzhan Vong.

It might be tolerable to the galaxy were not Luke and company there AGAIN and AGAIN. Leia the President of the galaxy is a Jedi when everything goes right and it's the Jedi that rescue the galaxy from the Yuuzhan Vong when they're certain that they are pretty much doomed.

They had mobilized for a long and lasting war and then BAM the Jedi end it in minutes.

Finally, when the galaxy has had enough of the Jedi's moralizing and turns on them when they protect the Yuuzhan Vong. They are absolutely certain that they are not the heroes they turn out to be....and in delicious irony it's AGAIN something that forces them back under Sith slavery.

The "common man" in the galaxy has pretty much had the past century be nothing but having their inadequacy to rule themselves smacked in their face over and over again. Apparently, man needs wizards.

 

That's one of the reasons I'd figure the Empire wouldn't mind - hell, would want - a Jedi academy.

 

To bring this full circle and back around to the topic title, the Empire wouldn't want a Jedi Academy under Luke Skywalker's philosophies. The Empire likes things they can control, not things that they can't. There's a coming face-off between Luke's Order and Omas' GFFA over the government wanting to put it's fingers into Order affairs. In fact, one could say it's already been started as far back as the DNT. The only way the Empire could accept a Jedi Order would be one that was more closely tied to and controlled by the government than even Luke's Order... and thus the Imperial Knights. Maverick Jedi like Kyp Durron and Qui-Gon Jinn would have no place in the Empire.

I still, though, do not believe that acceptance of Force-users would come easy to the Empire.

 

Honestly, I agree. While there's going to be naysayers like the inevitably late Morlissh Veed, on a whole the Imperial doctrine actually functions better to an interpretation of the Jedi doctrine than the Republic (note I say an interpretation). The Imperial government is based upon the dubious premise that there is someone well educated and benevolent enough to rule justly their entire lives. Adjusting their dictatorship views to incorporate Jedi bloodlines as somehow "special" and making it into a Force based monarchy is not that hard of a stretch. There's also a precedent that many of Palpatine's greatest successes came from his force ability. Jedi warriors furthermore are pretty much ideal in that they're doctrinally pure and possessed of fantastic abilities with a sublimination of the self to the state. The only problem being they operate best as solo operatives ala Mara Jade than as part of an organized heirarchy.

The transition to Jedi God-Emperor rule is pretty easy. It works for Warhammer 40,000 after all and Dune.

Ironically, it's the Jedi end of things that this flubs up as they've been pretty strict on the fact that they're not supposed to accumulate political power. If the Jedi were accepted into the Empire it'd probably be under the premise that the victory over the Yuuzhan Vong has granted them considerable prestige amongst the citizenry that respects martial accomplishments.

 

Frankly, the idea of that being a problem goes away if you...say so. It appears the Imperial Knights did away with that foible. (One of the reasons I'm taken to believe Fel I and II weren't Forcers.)

I mean, the progression's not difficult to envision: a Jedi academy is established because the Empire wants the benefits of Jedi, as well, and have untold, untapped numbers of Force sensitives living within their borders. Inevitably, this leads to friction, as it inevitably would between two top academies. The Jedi training on the Imperial Jedi Academy think differently. When an Emperor finally rises, they're loyal to him. The Jedi in the GA don't always like the way the Jedi in the IR are doing things, but can't justifiably excommunicate them or consider them not Jedi, so they just chafe a little.

Then comes the Sith-Imperial War.

 

You could be right about Fel I and Fel II not being force users. Jag's father could be #1 and Jag could be #2, with his son following. This could happen regardless of who Jag ends up with. A lot of things would have to happen though to get papa Fel on the throne. I can't see him getting there without some jedi on his side. Jacen at this point would kill anybody he deemed a threat. The Empire would want their own jedi to serve their interest, which would be the emperior. Plus if they did have jedi to strengthen them, I would imagine the Empire would side with the Corellians to weaken the GA more. Its all a power game. Both sides would have enough military power, the difference is jedi. If the Corellians get a government to side with them, the GA will have their hands full and the Empire is all that's left for them (so far anyways.)

 

Timing issues would lead me to believe that Jag - or some other current Fel kid - is the first Emperor in the dynasty, not Soontir.

Also, the Empire probably wouldn't join with Corellia against the GA, because the Empire is still part of the GA. Then again, Pellaeon did resign over the Corellia affair. Jacen, also, probably doesn't rise to power within the GA, judging by their state in Legacy. However, Jacen and Lumiya already have their own allegiance.

Hence the IKs.

 

Yeah, I hate that.

 

The only problem is Jag doesn't exactly seem to be currently King Material.

Just because Jag has a white strip in his hair doesn't mean he's the first one, it could be a recessive Fel trait.