In ESB: Was Vader REALLY trying to kill Luke?

Do you think Vader was trying to kill Luke in Cloud city? He told the Emperor "He will join us or diiiee master". Was Vader being a tub? Was he lying?

 

I don't think he would have killed him. The true answer is when he reveals himself as Luke's father. He wants Luke to join them "to rule the universe as father and son!" Once Luke joined him, they would overtake the Emperor. I think he was pushing Luke to the limit, but in no way would he have killed him. It's his son and deep down he loves him more than life itself.

 

His original plan was to freeze Luke, not kill him. However I do believe if Luke refused to join him, he would have definitely killed him.

 

Vader's been crushing throats with his powers all throughout ESB. He could have easily killed Luke, but doesn't... hmmm...

 

You have to be kidding me right? Did you miss the entire scene where Han gets frozen and Vader talks about using this to transport Luke to the Emperor?

 

No, he was just wanted to turn him to the darkside so he and Luke could kill Palpatine and rule the Galaxy together.

Although, if he was indeed to far down the path of the darkside, he would have indeed killed Luke son or not.

 

Look, he may be evil. He may go around choking people, but he wouldnt kill his son. Cutting his arm off was one thing, killing him is quite the other.

 

Not particularly. Even without the hook of Luke being his son, Vader still had quite a bit of use for him. He was a tool by which he could overthrow Palpatine, something I'm sure he's wanted to do for a hell of a long time.

 

I don't see much evidence to believe he was ever seriously trying to kill Luke. He's toying with him during the duel (although Lucas now seems hellbent on claiming that Vader's not doing anything spectacular as being an indication of how feeble he's become) and he does just about whatever he can to contain Luke or give him chances to give in. There's still the school of thought that it was Vader who helped Luke get caught in the vent after Luke took the sacrificial plunge. Makes you wonder how far Vader would've gone, particularly if Luke just decided to keep letting himself fall instead of changing his mind on the 'weather vain'.

Luke is a key to Vader's plans. Killing him only works towards keeping the Emperor unchallenged.

 

Vader was definately NOT trying to kill Luke. He wanted Luke to join him and rule the galaxy as father and son. Luke could help Vader over throw Palpatine. I am interested to see why Vader suddenly turns on Palpatine in ROTS. I mean, so far, Anakin lovesss old Palps. Palps will even save his life, so why does Vader want to kill him? And I don't buy the whole rule about the Sith always wanting to overthrow there boss to get more power. Maul didn't do it. Dooku didn't do it. Vader starts turning good when he finds out about Luke being alive.

 

Vader starts turning good when he finds out about Luke being alive.

I agree. I believe this is when the true "conflict" begins. Obviously, it's nowhere near it's climax until the end of ROTJ, but it starts here.

Vader never had any intention of killing his son. It just wasn't going to happen. We know he had the power to do so within his pinky. However, he chose not to. It doesn't matter how nasty Vader became in his twenty-some odd years of being the powerful and evil Sith Lord, he would never kill his son.

 

I think the plot point will be revealed in the new movie. Anakin goes over to the dark side, but as Lucas has stated it's some kind of deal he basically makes with the devil. I assume we will see that Vader isn't really evil, he just made the wrong choices and now feels trapped.

So when Luke arrives Vader has a chance to retain the power of the Dark Side while eliminating the one who trapped him in the first place. I think Luke gives the Anakin side of Vader something to hold on to about his past. At the end of ROTJ, Vader sees that basically Luke is also going to suffer because of his mistakes and that mized with the revelation of a daughter gets the best of him. In the end I think it waters down the true evil side of Vader and makes him more a victim of bad circumstances.

 

No, he wasn't trying to kill Luke. If he was trying to kill Luke, he would have done so. Quite easily.

 

i agree - he was trying to get him to release his anger, hone his hatred, etc etc, to turn him to the Dark Side (such parenting skills are rarely exhibited in the modern world)

 

He was toying with him, but if Luke hadn't proved himself a worthy student or shown his prowesss with the Force, Vader would have killed him. Watch when Luke is on the weather vane, he is creeping down the hallway when Vader comes out of nowhere and tries to take his head off. If Luke hadn't been on his toes, Vader would have definately killed him there. Same goes for the beginning of their duel. Vader makes a cut for Luke's head, Luke ducks in the nick of time, and Vader cuts the piping next to him. It was a trial for Luke. Failure meant death, success meant that he would be trained in the Dark Arts.

 

You don't know if Vader turns on palps. The movie didn't come out yet, son.

 

This is the biggest thing that always got me when i saw the dule during ESB Vader really looked mad..he was really hacking and slashing away putting what seemed to be alot of weight and force behind each swing like he was determinted to kill luke as mentioned prior that scene where everything is quiet and suddenly he lunges from the shadows and almost cuts luke's head stright off...i really think if luke had not had been on his guard he would have lost it and yet i think vader's whole thing was he wanted luke to live..he needed him he wanted to rule the galaxy with him he couldent defeate Sidious and needed luke to help over throw him

 

well, yeah - hes a Dark Lord of the Sith, to whom even family doesnt matter...hes spent years in the Dark Side...suddenly finding his son isnt gonna strip away all the darkness around Vader. He finds Luke, thinks "he's just like me - the Dark Side will do him good" and is enraged that Luke doesnt see things from his point of view. Parents can be violent towards their children if driven to it (or not in some cases). Its the same behavious Anakin exhibited in Episode II and the Anakin vs Greedo cut scene of Episode I. If someone disagreed with him, didnt see things in exactly the same way he did, he'd lash out at them...being trained as a Jedi controlled that to a more vocal and less physical lashing out, but its still there. Palps teaches him its good to hate, and he regresses back to the street fighter...basically, these instincts are too deep rooted in him for him to suddenly hold back just because its his son here...thats in my humble, anyway

and yeah, i agree that its a trial, to see if Luke really is worth the trouble of training or not.

 

Well, at the time ESB was made, there were lots of Sith. So Vader wanted to let the Emperor know that his loyalty to him was greater than his relation to his son. At least on the surface--bc once we are in Cloud City, Vader is asking Luke to join him to kill the emperor.

Now there is a rule of 2, the line can be interpreted as Vader agreeing with emperor that Luke should not become Jedi, put a new Sith Apprentice--either for Palps or for Vader. Thus, someone will die--Palps, Vader, or Luke. There can only be 2 Sith. However, things turned out differently....

 

Vader's sole objective was to disable Luke, whether through carbon freezing or dismemberment, and take him to the Emperor alive. Luke is seen by Vader as more of a means to an end, so he can overtrow the Emperor at this point in the story.

By the end, of course, the good in Vader is being reached. This is evident by him recommending Luke's survival to the Emperor and by not choking Admiral Piett at the end.

Vader may not have been trying to kill Luke (though, metaphorically, he was trying to kill Luke as he killed Anakin), but he was most certainly trying to back him into a corner where he had but two choices: Turn dark or die.

The key scene, of course, is when Luke is hanging on the ledge and Vader is trying to convince him to turn. We will never know what Vader would have done (my guess is send about 50 Stormtroopers to get Luke out of there), but the bottom line is that Luke made the decision to face death instead of accept Vader's offer.

 

Vader was not trying to kill him overall.