CT In ROTJ ending how comes Leia couldn't see Anakin, Yoda & Obi-Wan force ghosts?

In Return Of The Jedi ending on endor celebrating the defeat of the empire, while Luke looked at the force ghost of Anakin, Yoda & Obi-Wan, when Leia went up to Luke to bring him back to celebrate with everyone, how comes she didn't see the force ghosts of Anakin, Yoda & Obi-Wan? Luke could see Obi-Wan's force ghost on hoth in ESB without training so how comes Leia couldn't see them as force ghosts and the fact that she is force sensitive too.

 

You mean how come. No S.

They are there for Luke to see, not Leia.

 

But Leia should be able to see them too, as she's force sensitive.

 

By TESB Luke had been self-training for quite a bit. That might make the difference.

Also Leia shows no obvious reaction (besides a smile) when greeting Luke at that point - but maybe he's told her of his counselling by Obi-Wan's ghost, so, having already been told she's Force Sensitive, she's not as surprised to see the ghosts as we would be.

 

While the ability to appear requires knowledge and training from the person in question, the ability to see someone's spirit (and a lot of other abilities) also requires knowledge and training in the ways of the Force. Notice how as Luke's abilities and training progresses, Obi-Wan's corporeal form also becomes more clear. First it's only a voice in ANH. Then at the beginning of TESB it's a fading image, then as he has been under training and is about to leave Dagobah, Obi-Wan appears clearly.

 

As I recall, Yoda sees "visible Obi-Wan" instantaneously in From A Certain Point of View, right after ANH - which would fit with that interpretation, since Yoda is already fully trained.

 

One could also go even further and point out that in ROTJ (where Luke has completed his skills and is for all intents and purposes ready to become a Jedi Knight), Obi-Wan actually interacts with the surrounding environment as if he was phisically there. But that might bring the discussion of spirits interacting with, controlling and/or destroying the material world and that would be missing the point of their purpose altogether (which is not and never was that).

 

It’s because she wasn’t trained to use the Force just yet. Pretty sure the ability to see Force Ghosts comes once you’ve had significant amount of training.

 

Didn't C-3PO react to Luke's Force Projection in TLJ despite not being Force Sensitive, as a droid?

I suppose Ghosts might be harder to see than Projections.

 

Why should she?

An everyday equivalent example. You have a phone, your friend standing next to you has a phone. Someone rings your friends phone. You cannot use your phone to hear and talk to them, only your friend can hear and talk to them on his phone.

 

I didn't expect her to see them because at the time I didn't believe she was as tuned into the Force as Luke was, (ie: training) and Luke had been interacting with force ghosts several times before. Leia just learned she was force capable, she hadn't even used much of it up to that point.

 

I suppose Rian Johnson (just like JJ Abrams before him) didn´t bother to pay attention to the in-universe rules established in the first six films.

 

Obi-Wan was a Jedi master and still had to be taught by Yoda on how to hear and speak to Qui Gon at the end of RotS.

 

Plus, unless I misunderstood that scene, that technique seemed to be fairly new too (or else a closely held secret ever taught to a select few).

 

Yes, it was something unknown to the Jedi (and virtually everyone else).

 

Yes that was my understanding too. Maybe Yoda knew of this ability from ancient times/writings but had never before personally had someone reach out to him in this way. Yoda (or any other jedi master)wouldn't have been training other Jedi how to do something that they themselves hadn't ever done, and not even knowing if it was truly possible.

 

i always thought she wasn't looking out beyond Luke so that she wouldn't have seen them anyway.

As far as being Force sensitive to see a ghost?.... i mean how strong was Luke in Empire when he saw Obi-Wan?

 

I think there’s a different between ghosts and projections. With the latter, Luke was literally using the Force to project his image onto Scrait so for all intents and purposes, he was actually there. If only Force users could see him then, the First Order would wonder why Kylo was suddenly screaming at them to open fire at a random patch of ground rather than where the Resistance were.

Think of it like a hologram, only multiplied by a thousand given that it’s powered using the Force.

 

In the new newcanon junior ROTJ novelization (as opposed to the Legends-era revised for newcanon junior ROTJ novelization) Beware the Power of the Dark Side, Ben has to put a great deal of effort into manifesting.

Kenobi told him that his father was a good man who was killed by Darth Vader. And now Luke knows that was a lie.
So he walks away from Yoda's hut full of all the feelings that Yoda waited so long to warn him about.
There are many dangers in the swamps of Dagobah. Once, when Luke was here training with Yoda, he was alert to every one of them. Even when running at full speed, every step was chosen carefully.
But today he walks carelessly through the muck and mire. There's so much in his head he cannot see what is around him.
He stops briefly to check on some repair work R2 is doing on the X-wing, but he can't focus. He is overwhelmed. Unable to act or even think clearly.
Far away and yet nearby, Obi-Wan senses all this and knows he must help.
Like most Jedi, Obi-Wan became part of the Force when he died.
But Obi-Wan did something the others did not. Guided by the discoveries of his own master, Qui-Gon Jinn, Kenobi found a way to live after death and even return to walk briefly among the living. Not for himself, not for some greedy dream of immortality, but to continue the great fight against evil and tyranny.
It takes a great effort, a great will, but he collects himself, pulls together the pieces of his consciousness from the endless flowing energy of the Force, and appears before Luke.
He cannot do this often, only at the key moments in Luke's journey, when a misstep might spell doom, not only for Luke, but for any hope of bringing balance back to the Force and freedom to the people of the galaxy.
And this, he senses, is the most critical moment of all.

...

"Your insight serves you well, says Obi-Wan. "Bury your feelings deep down, Luke. They do you credit, but they could be made to serve the Emperor."
Luke looks away, across the swamp into the mist and murk. His mind, however, is clearing.
"What about my mother? Who was she? What happened-"
"No, Luke," says Obi-Wan. "Let that truth stay with me for now. You carry too many burdens already."
Luke starts to argue, but sees the pain in his old master's face and simply nods.
Obi-Wan considers Luke. He cannot see the future as well as Yoda could, but he does sense that Luke will not be able to bury his feelings.
But, just as Yoda did, Obi-Wan wonders if, perhaps, that might not be a failing at all.
Obi-Wan and Yoda and Qui-Gon too, were masters of the Force. They buried their feelings and used the Force at its fullest power.
And they failed to stop the Emperor. They didn't even stop Anakin.
Perhaps Luke's feelings really will serve him.
But if not ... all will be lost.
Obi-Wan can sense his strength growing weak. He cannot bend the laws of nature any further. He must go.
It will be up to Luke now, he realizes. As he fades out of Luke's world and back into the Force, he says the only thing that is left to say.
"Luke, the Force will be with you ... always."

 

I admit that I never thought about it that way! I always thought that the presence of the ghosts depended on the ability of the deceased (in other words, Obi-Wan was just a voice in ANH because he needed time to be able to appear as a ghost), but the idea that their appearances depend on the one who sees them (Luke can see them more clearly as he progresses his trainning) is much more interesting! In a way, it means that the ghosts don't actually exist outside of world of the one who sees them: in other words, Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin's ghosts are, in a way, part of Luke, who can use his powers to "see" these people; but they are not actually "there". They can only been seen by Luke.

 

The ability to retain one's spirit in the Force does require knowledge and training of the person that does it. That's a fact already established. Qui-Gon, for example, couldn't appear in corporeal form because his training was incomplete, not matter the knowledge/training/ability of who he's communing with. What I was saying was that the ability to see someone's spirit in the Force also requires knowledge and training in the ways of the Force, and as Luke's Force abilities and training progresses, so does his ability to see the spirit of Obi-Wan more clearly (along with Yoda and Anakin's, once they died and joined the netherworld).

Think of it like Qui-Gon who's able to sense Anakin's strength in the Force vs Anakin who can't sense Qui-Gon's, because he wasn't trained to nor were his abilities with the Force that (properly) developed.

 

I think it comes down to something along these lines.

The ghosts only appear to people they want to appear to, thus Leia could not see them.

 

Ok that has my interest... maybe that'll be my next book!

 

As others have said Leia and everyone else could not see the ghosts because they chose to appear only to Luke. Personally I think this is because the ability to see them depends on the mind of the individual. When a person uses the Force they are using their mind to control the energy field of the Force. And in the same way, the Force can act on an individual's mind - as mentioned in ANH the Force can control your actions and also obey your commands. So the ghosts were connecting to Luke - he was the only one 'tuned in' to their presence.

 

The script indicates that Luke can barely see Obi-wan on Hoth, but his surprised to see him fully on Dagobah.

Luke lies face down in the snow, nearly unconscious.

Slowly he looks up and sees Ben Kenobi, barely visible through the blowing snow. It is hard to tell if Kenobi is real or a hallucination.

Then.

Luke looks toward the voice in amazement. Ben has materialized as a real, slightly shimmering image near Yoda. The power of his presence stops Luke.

Nope. They can only appear to those who are strongly attuned to the Force. The only time this is not true is on Mortis, or somewhere that a strong nexus of Force energy will allow them to be seen. Qui-gon could be seen by Obi-wan and Anakin on Mortis because of this. But as he told Yoda on Dagobah, his training was incomplete and thus he can only be heard.