In the end , Did sending Anakin to Spy on the Chancellor/Palpatine actually ACCOMPLISH anything?

It did not prevent Order66. but had the potential to .and it did not stop Palpatine. just reinforced his position.
This was to be the Jedi's Ace in the hole. instead it was their Achilles heal. did they place too much faith in their own Judgement and not enough on the Prophecy that said this would come to pass?.

 

For the Jedi, it did nothing positive for them. It's just that they put too much faith in their ability to deal with anything. For the Sith, it was like shooting ducks in a barrel.

 

Yeah, it got Palpatine even closer to Anakin.

 

Palpatine confessed before Anakin could even say "bantha poodoo".

 

The plan, in theory, was a good one - it did what the Jedi wanted it to do, on a certain level - flush out the elusive Sith and Force him to make the next move.
Hopefully the deleted scene in Yoda's office will highlight the logic behind the plan, as it does in the novel.

IMO, the reason the plan failed was because they did not account on just one little detail - the Chancellor they were spying on and the Sith they were trying to flush out were THE SAME PERSON.

 

It was, in fact, Palpatine's plan :

When he asks Anakin to be his personal representative on the Jedi Council, Anakin thinks that the Jedi will never accept it. Palpatine's reply is one of the great moments of ROTS :

"I think they will, they need you more than you know ..."

-They need anakin more than he knows because they already suspect the chancellor's entourage to have dealings with Sidious.

-They need him more than he knows because he is the only link between the Chancellor's office and the Jedi Council, since relations have turned quite tense between the two.

-They need him more than he knows because Palpatine is Darth Sidious. Palpatine is just playing with that idea, almost openly, and that's what so exciting for the audience (us).

-Palpatine is the one who told Dooku to reveal that Sidious controlled the Senate in AOTC, making the Jedi suspicious.



So it is really all a plan set up by Palpatine. Palpatine does it at the right moment. He knows the jedi will be irritated by his move. He knows they will not trust Anakin. But he also knows it will be their only chance to find out who Sidious really is and what the Supreme Chancellor's true intentions really are.

The Jedi are forced by Palpatine to spy on him. By grabbing even more powers at the same time he increases the Jedi's suspicion and makes sure they will fall into the trap.

The jedi accomplished nothing. They did exactly what Palpatine expected them to do. They literally abondonned the Republic to him, allowing him to accuse them of treachery. Allowing Anakin to be put in a situation where he would have to make a choice between them or the Sith Lord.

The jedi lost the day Palpatine was elected Supreme Chancellor.

Spying on the Chancellor isn't the Jedi's idea. It's Sidious' idea. They are just made to think it was their move ...

 

They also had another motive GiG, they were in a sense "paranoid" at the amount of power that Palpatine had ammassed and was trying to exercise against the Council. Palpatine had overstayed his term of office by many years and was now insisting on appointing a special representative to the Council. What's more, that special rep was a member of the Order. IMO, the overriding concern for the Jedi in commissioning Anakin as their spy, was to try to counter Palaptine's power grab. As you say, they had no conceived of the possibility theat Pals was Sids. Flusing out the Sith seems to have been a secondary concern in this case.

 

The whole thing was instigated by Palps to get anakin close to him. Remember, the Jedi only ask Anakin to spy on palps becasue palps requests anakin be put on the council as his personal representative. Palps requested this cos he knew they would agree to it and use anakin to their means. Thats why Palps says

"they need you anakin, more than you know"

The Jedi need anakin to kill Palps, like he should have when he attacked Mace. But he did'nt, cos he was too close to palps, and the Jedi allowed this to happen by agreeing to Palps request of having Anakin be his representitive.

Thats also how Palps knows the Jedi have asked Anakin to spy on him. He knew they would becasue his request was a strange one. So he uses this to play on anakins mind by telling him at the oprah house that they have made him do something disshonest.

So you see, the Jedi played right into Palps little scheme by making him their spy, cos Palps wanted them too. :0)

 

So he uses this to play on anakins mind by telling him at the oprah house that they have made him do something disshonest.

Oprah house, good one.

So you see, the Jedi played right into Palps little scheme by making him their spy, cos Palps wanted them too.

Yep, it caused Anakin to be even more mistrustfull of the Council.

 

It gave Palpatine ample opportunity to seduce him to the dark side, which leads to the destruction of their order. That's accomplishing quite alot, unfortunately, not what they had in mind.

 

It would have benefitted if Ani wasn't on the verge of being
sucked into Sithland, but the Jedi over-estimated his ability
to handle himself against outside influences and over-estimated
his loyalty. The theory was good, they just had no idea how far
gone Ani already was by that point. They also had no idea doing so
was helping Palps to add fuel onto the fire of rage and mistrust he
was building within Ani.

 

The question I would pose to the people who doubted the Jedi's wisdom in doing this...would be what else should they have done?
The force was clouded and the answers could not be found there. If they asked Palpatine what his motives were would he have told them the truth? No.
Lastly...who else was close enough to the chancellor to on monitor his activities but Anakin?
What else should they have done?

 

They should not have broken their own rules and made an "off the record" investigation. They pick up one or two sith qualities if you ask me. They should have had patience. let the truth unroll before them. But they took a shortcut to unveil the sith, and went against their better judgement pairing ankin with him. I know he realy was the only one close enough to do it, but Mace and Yoda dont think he's up to it, yet they still make him do it.

"If you chose the quick and easy path, like Vader did, you will become an agent of evil"

You'd do well to listen to your own advice there Yoda.

"Great fear i sence in his training"
"No, he will not be trained"
"I dont think the boy can handle it, i dont trust him"

3 phrases that show ignored doubt. If they had listed to their feelings they would not have been destroyed, and thats ultimaetly Qui-gons legacy.

"Feel, dont think"

He was'nt on the council for this line of thinking, yet it turned out that if the council had been a little less ridged and a litle more like him, they could have saved themselves.

"The dark side of the force surrounds the chancellor"

Then act on your feelings Mace, confront him, dont send Anakin, someone you dont even trust anyway, to do your job.

"He's managed to stay in office long after his term has expired. Use your feelings Anakin something is'nt right"

Then confront him yourself, dont send your nieve, gullable power hungry buddy to do it for you.

Fools.

 

LOL...Oh yeah...I forgot The Sith were 100 percent justified in taking over the Galaxy from peaceful negotiators. My bad.
And uh...I remember Mace having to step up to the plate and try and do ANAKINS job for him...but oh well. I forgot...the Sith are the heroes...they are perfect in every way!
The moral of the story is...if you have faults you deserve to be screwed over and overthrown. I think thats what Lucas was trying to tell us...yeah.

 

The force was clouded and the answers could not be found there. If they asked Palpatine what his motives were would he have told them the truth? No.
Lastly...who else was close enough to the chancellor to on monitor his activities but Anakin?
What else should they have done?

The Force was clouded to them, but had not disappeared. The answers are in the Force, the Jedi simply aren't listening properly. They are too busy reacting to events. they don't pause to consider the cause of these events. In the OT, the Jedi gain an understanding of the Force. Is the Force any less clouded with the Sith fully in control? The mystery of the Sith cmade the water murky, but the arrogance of the jedi blinded the matter.

Not to mention, finding the Sith was not the overriding concern with placing Anakin with Palpatine. The concern was the Chancellor's disregard for democratic restraint and intrusion into the Jedi Council.

 

Intrusion? No. He wanted control over the Jedi order...and he wanted control over everything. Once again you are making Palpatine right and the Jedi wrong. Were you actually sitting in the theater believing what he was saying? Damn...that guys a great actor.

 

I never said that Papatine was right. But, the decision wasn't based on an flushing out the Sith. They had no idea who the Sith was.

In answer to your original question, the answer to the problem was not spying on Pals it was focusing on the Force. They believed themselves blind, and behaved that way. They weren't blind, they had covered their eyes. Spying on Palps is symptomatic of their real problem. The Council was relying more on its powers than on the guidance of the Force.

 

Exactly, exactly, exactly...

Excellent post Turkey...

 

Ooooh...the old gang up tactic eh? LOL! So basically your saying that the Jedi should have sat there with they're collective thumbs up there butt...waiting for an answer from the force while they gave up complete control to a dictator?
Yeah...that would have been a hell of a movie.

Good post OBI79
Thanks obi79!
LOL!

 

There's nothing that mission accomplished in terms of benefit for the Jedi and the Republic. Anakin was in a no win situation. Sidious had to know eventually his actions would warrant the closest Jedi to him to be sent to spy on him. When it happened, Sidious was ready.

 

No, it did not. It heightened Palpatine's power. The Jedi did all they could do. As a matter of fact, they played right into Palpatine's hands. They did actually what he wanted them to do. When you have good and evil, and good is severely mistaken for evil and evil is mistaken for good, what chance do you have? It was a bad idea to begin with. It was an even worse idea to not make Anakin a master. Palpatine manipulated the situation and drove a dagger into the heart of the Jedi.

 

Exactly, they played right into Palpatine's hands. The Jedi were so clouded by the Dark Side at this point, they were so predictable to Sidious.

 

Of course it was a Bad idea. it backfired , right?. then it was a Mistake. "To a Dark place this line of thinking will lead us". Yoda knew it was a Gamble. and it was. just that it paid off for Palpatine instead.

 

No, I was commending Turkey on his use of direct quotes which I don't really take the time to look for... The point however is that the Jedi made a definitive choice to throw their own moral code out. To use an analogy here; take the politician in Portalnd who was a huge denouncer of homosexuals, calling it sinful and immoral only to then be caught soliciting gay sex on the internet... It's not that he's gay, or that he's soliciting gay sex online that is necessarily wrong, it is his hypocricy. The Jedi denounce the underhanded working of the Sith and then toss it out when it is convenient - Tutkey pointed out some excellent quotes directly from members of the Jedi Council that violated their own teachings...

It isn't the decision to spy that I find weak, it is the throwing out of their own moral code that they have been rigidly holding thousands of other Jedi to for thousands of years. Without the rigid Jedi moral code, maybe Annakin could have married his love in public and then turned to the Jedi when he had the dreams of her death for guidance without fear of reprisal. Annakin's violation of the code is seen as a turn towards the Dark Side, while the Jedi Council is seen as a bunch of poor naive sheep who got hoodwinked by Palpatine???