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Iron Fist vs Mon Remonda

Discussion in 'Literature' started by skywalker-singh, Feb 16, 2006.

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  1. skywalker-singh

    skywalker-singh Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    Was just re-reading the x-wing series.

    And came up with a personal quirk.
    We have Han solo and his flagship sent to hunt down Zsinj's super star destroyer- The Iron fist.
    In the opening chapters of Solo command- Mon Remonda is ambushed by Zsinj's forces- his super star destroyer, an ISD, a victory class destroyer, a dreadnaught and two light cruisers.

    Solo along with mon remonda has another mon cal cruiser, a frigate and a maurader class corvette.
    Further in his second group- he has an isd, another mon cal cruiser and a quasar bulk cruiser.

    Supposedly these forces are relatively evenly matched.
    Now the imperial dreadnaught and the two cruisers possibly cancel out the frigate, the corvete and the bulk cruiser.

    Leaving mon remonda, two more mon cal cruisers, and an isd against zsinj's ssd, an isd and a victory class destroyer.
    4 capital ships versus 3 imperial capital ships. Relatively fair odds except zsinj has an super star destroyer on his side.
    Further Zsinj has a second group consisting of 2 more star destroyers, 2 dreadnaughts, a light cruiser and a lancer class frigate.

    A tad overkill for solo.
    Though solo through good tacics is able to escape and disable iron fist's engines.

    In the x-wing book iron fist- mom remonda supported by 3 smaller cruisers is able to hold its own against the iron fist and turbolaser blasts from the razor's kiss.

    Mon remonda even survives a direct bararge from both super destroyers and is able to slug it out.

    Now I am a bit confused by the capabilities of the Mon Remonda. It only houses 4 squadrons, while a ISD carries 6- yet somehow it would seem mon-remonda is a match for the iron fist.

    I would think solo's group would need atleast a few more cruisers or destroyers to handle a super star destroyer. Should a super start destroyer- 8 km or 12 or 15 km in lenght depending upon your opinion not be more then a match for a mon cal cruiser- the size of a km long isd?
    I would think one would need around 4-6 cruisers or destroyers, or at the very least 3 to handle a super isd?
    Yet we do not
    Which brings me to my question. how powerful is the Mon Remonda? I know it is considered to be one of the more powerful mn cal cruisers. But is it bigger then your average mon cal cruiser?
    To make sense out of the battles- one would need to assume that mon remonda is the equivalent of iron fist. Which to me does not make sense.

    I was wondering if someone better schooled in star wars' ships, be able to answer this question as I am having trouble comprehending how solo's group could survive two big battles with the iron fist with forces so outnumbered or outclassed?
     
  2. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    I think the 8km SSD was what was envisioned when the battles were written, but to rectify that, I suppose one could argue Zsinj wasn't able to maintain the Iron Fist's full capabilities/unable to as easily repair battle damage, so over the course of several encounters, it begins to wear down the IF.

    Though I'm sure there's some "Zsinj kept the IF in top condition" passage I'm forgetting that negates this theory ;)
     
  3. Fingolfin_Noldor

    Fingolfin_Noldor Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2004
    I sense another impending SSD debate...
     
  4. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    You basically have to assume that somehow, the SSDs weren't at full power. If they're truly as long as they are, they obviously shouldn't have had any problem--the books were just using the incorrect length.

    So the fix we're forced to take is that Iron Fist had less than optimal conditioning, and Rancor Base just wasn't good enough at maintaining the ship. Maybe she was low on fuel? Razor's Kiss is easier--she's brand new and not made for it.

    The excuse that the book made is that enough guns couldn't be brought to bear.
     
  5. skywalker-singh

    skywalker-singh Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    hmm weak.....
    and what about mon remonda's capabilities?
     
  6. Lank_Pavail

    Lank_Pavail Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 26, 2002
    The only passage that would belie that would be Zsinj's own statment to the disguised Face about his 'abilities for repair being unparalleled'. He could be putting on a show for his guests int hat regard too, like his false bridge.
     
  7. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Quite right, Zsinj is fond of bluffing.

    Want to know the eerie thing though? I just read that very paragraph in the book a few minutes ago--it's the last passage I've read so far. That's creepy.
     
  8. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    Good book, Solo Command. Cover too.
     
  9. AdmiralWesJanson

    AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    Repairs may be simple with the huge dock at Rancor Base. Resupply may be more difficult...

    Mon Remonda is cited as being overpowered compared to other Mon Cal cruisers of similar size, which are already stated to have extremely durable shielding.

    There is also the fact that the Rebel force used torpedo salvoes to great effect against Zsinj's ships, to complement the big guns.
     
  10. 000

    000 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2005
    The Iron Fist was an old Mandator II. Eight klicks of mini-Executor.

    The Brawl is still unaccounted for.




    ;)
     
  11. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    Iron Fist was Brawl. Award by the Emp for stranding the fems on Dathomir.
     
  12. dp4m

    dp4m Mr. Bandwagon star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Also, re: 4 squadrons to 6 squadrons.

    Standard rules of engagement in the Rebellion Era were 3:1 in favor of the Imperials. So, by those factors, the Alliance had the numerical superiority there. ;)
     
  13. killfire

    killfire Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2001
    Truth is, Han and Zsinj faked it. And Zsinj went into the NR witness program and settled on Bakura.
     
  14. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Well, as has been mentioned before, the Iron Fist most likely was not running in top condition. The only remaining problem is the fact that the Mon Remonda seems to have almost invincible shields, similar to the Galactic Voyager years later when fighting the Knight Hammer.

    --Adm. Nick
     
  15. Admiral_Keller

    Admiral_Keller Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2005
    The Iron Fist isn't the same ship as the Executor mind you. The Executor was the longest (and will remain the longest) Super Star Destroyer. The Iron Fist is actually a Superior Class Super Star Destroyer a 8 km ship with less weapons then the orginal Executor. On the note of the Mon Remonda surviving the two ships, keep in mind that the Razor's Kiss was a stripped down ship and had far less weapons then the Iron Fist.
     
  16. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Thankfully there's no such thing as a Superior-class, since it's the stupidest fan retcon ever.
     
  17. 000

    000 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2005
    Yep.

    I was kidding about the Brawl, Ex. ;)
     
  18. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    I know, I realised that bit too late. It's the high charisma; I should be attributing my awareness too.
     
  19. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Awareness isn't an attribute, Ex -- it's a skill. Looks like you should be attributing WIS.[face_laugh] :p
     
  20. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Or intelligence, get more skill points.
     
  21. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    It gets better. I didn't think I needed Intel in Shadows of Amn. With only 9, Mindflayers are braining me dead in two hits. It took some ingenius tactics to counter them, because I was too miser to use any potions or spells.

    Speaking of which, do you really need Intel for KOTOR 1?

    I don't know how realistic the Remonda engagements were. Especially at the end of Iron Fist. While she was left limping and quite damaged, true, the new book Solo Command seemed all fixed up. She's but a flit to a flitgnat, and I don't like how all all her guns are clustered in 6 and 12s. It may concentrate fire on one spot, but enough hits and you can cascade chainreactions across her hull batteries in return, too close together as they are.

     
  22. Master_of_Ossus

    Master_of_Ossus Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Not to get too off-topic, but potions of genius are your friend. Animate undead is also useful, since the skeletons are not affected by mind flayers.

    What especially annoyed me about that thing was the idea that the SSD could bring only a small fraction of its weapons to bear on the Mon Remonda at once. That situation should've been temporary at best while the Fist maneuvered slightly to bring more of its weapons into play.
     
  23. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    I know . . . but that would make killing mindflayers too easy. ;)

    I liked most of the Wraith Trilogy, but most books have Superstars powered down. Whe I think of scores of batteries raining energy bolts second after second, what could possibly stand in their way? Remonda presents a 1200m target hard to miss.
     
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