is it possible Decipher could get the license back?

Ok, let's say that the TCG is released, and, as many people are saying here, it fails. Even with future expansions that try to expand gameplay into other movies, and more things to do in the TCG beside battle, and it still fails, is it possible that Decipher could get the license back?

just because decipher lost the license, does that mean they will give up on swccg? the next time the star wars card license is up for renewal, will Decipher go to Lucasfilm with a proposal to get the license back?

Del rey used to have the SW license but lost it to Bantam, but now Del Rey has the license again. Is it possible that the SWCCG is not dead, but only has to wait for Lucasfilm to realize that the TCG is going nowhere (if it does) and is not making the money and getting the following the CCG did (if it doesnt) and then give the license back to Decipher to continue with the CCG?

I mean is all hope lost? To me it seems if the TCG does not get the following it wants, it would almost have to give the license back to Decipher if thats what it took to start making money again.

what do y'all think?

 

It has to be remembered that many here are claiming the game will fail because this has been a CCG forum, meaning that many of the old faithful are die hard CCG players and don't like what has happened to their game. Theresor, this board can't really be taken as a general example of the overall card gaming/ Star Wars fans.
I for one would love the game to be given back to Decipher, but hey, that's just an opinion.

 

I suspect WOTC has the license for at least 3 years. I don't know if it would make great business sense to award it for longer than that given the game is untested from a market point of view. It would be nice to know for a fact what the term is, but then again, it seems that the possibility of Decipher ever regaining the license is probably pretty remote (in my opinion).

Hasbro has been buying up Star Wars companies and licenses left and right, and with Lucas and Lucas licensing being major stock holders in Hasbro, the belief that they'd prefer competition from other companies is highly unlikely.

Restrainingbolt

 

Possible yes.

Likely, not necessarily

 

I don't mean to sound pessimistic(sp?), but...

I don't think that George Lucas is going to admit that he is wrong.
Now don't get me wrong, I fully support Decipher, and will not buy Wizards game for gold, and I would love to see D get their license back.

 

The real question is this: after at least 3 years with the WotC game, how many of us will be ready to accept the game back to Decipher. That's a darn long time between innings, and I for one will probably have lost interest in the whole thing.

 

This move to Wizards from Decipher has been a marketing scheme. Just as NOT releasing the TPM DVD at the same time as the VHS was. By giving the license to wotc, temporarily or not, they will be introducing the card game market to many of their other products. When the media started running stories on how Lucas would not release a DVD, this sparked a larger interrest in the DVD...therefore more DVD sales. Plus, many who own the DVD now also have the vhs. Double Whammy! See how it works?

 

Young Ben, you seem to be assuming that the move to WotC IS a mistake:

"I don't think that George Lucas is going to admit that he is wrong."

I think a lot of people here are assuming that the move is a mistake when the game HASN'T EVEN COME OUT.

Always in motion is the future. I suggest putting aside your biases and your wishful thinking at least until the game is actually released and played - and perhaps as long as the first expansion set or two. Give WotC's game at least some benefit of the doubt.

 

While I'm not excited about Decipher losing the license, we can't foresee how the WOTC ST:TCG will do. Right now, I just can't see getting into the game. That's me. However, I couldn't get into Decipher's LOTR game either (and I tried). That said, local tournaments for LOTR are pulling in 2 to 3 times the people that SWCCG was.

So all said, don't set yourself on the WOTC game being a failure until it's belly up and bloated. It might just turn out to be an exciting game. If it does fail miserably, who knows if Decipher would want the license back after 2-3 years time?

For myself, I'm not excited to get into this new game. Decipher's version still holds so much promise and excitement for me when I play it. I'd prefer if Big D could continue it. However, WOTC has it and they might just do it well despite your or mine objections.

 

A. Bubba,
It is never wise to alienate a Large group of consumers.

 

I agree that it's *dangerous* to change licenses, but it's not uncommon for Lucas: the switch from Del Ray to Bantam back to Del Ray, the switch from Marvel to Dark Horse, etc.

Besides, to be *completely* honest, the Decipher fanbase may be large in comparison to other card games, but not in comparison to top-selling comics (X-Men), toys (Kenner's SW toys, Pokemon, and whatever six-year-olds want this week), and books (Star Wars, Star Trek, and Wheel of Time).

It may be a move to appeal to a large audience at the *risk* of alienating the current fan base, but it may be justified if the game is actually good enough to appeal to new fans and bring back the Decipher fans who give it a chance.

 

NO!!!
Decipher getting the license back would be a huge mistake. Decipher lost the license because no new people were playing the game!!!! As I have said before to succeed in Decipher's game you needed cards from some of the earlier sets and about four of each ultra rare in each deck! This does not appeal to people who want to get into a new card game. Wizards has succeeded in constantly attracting new players to their longer running games, such as Magic without substantially changing the gameplay(i.e. podracing, politics, defense shields).
Wizards in getting the license has instead of alienating an entire fanbase has opened it up for new players better than Decipher ever could.

 

"Seriously, though, if JK and YJ, which had very similar game mechanics, shy the dice, didn't do well, what makes you think the WOTC game will perform any better? "

No competiors. JK was a great game and was run in to the ground by its super dependence on rares and ultra collectability. It also was hampered by the fact that there was already 2 other SW games. The TCG doesn't have this problem. The CCG just did not appeal to a large audience and for the past 2 years has steadly slipped in popularity. I think WotC has a good chance of bringing the new TCG to a more mainstream audience. I know the CCG was popular (heck I loved it) but I knew far more people who did not like the game than people who enjoyed it.

 

***************
Darksbane wrote:
No competiors. JK was a great game and was run in to the ground by its super dependence on rares and ultra collectability. It also was hampered by the fact that there was already 2 other SW games. The TCG doesn't have this problem. The CCG just did not appeal to a large audience and for the past 2 years has steadly slipped in popularity. I think WotC has a good chance of bringing the new TCG to a more mainstream audience. I know the CCG was popular (heck I loved it) but I knew far more people who did not like the game than people who enjoyed it.
+++++++++++

I would hope you're not placing your hopes on the fact that there is "no competition." That isn't going to be a deciding factor "if" (and I did say if) the game mechanics of the new game doesn't appeal to a large audience. I know there are a number of die hard proponents here on the boards that think the new game is the best thing since sliced bread. We'll see how the game takes off when the average player decides to try it out.

With repect to the Decipher games, the fact that they dropped in popularity have a lot to do with the fact that there were three Star Wars games. I agree with you on that score. I don't believe they failed, however, due to the fact that they weren't popular. I do believe they declined in popularity over the last year and a half due to poor decisions and policies pursued by Decipher. How many of those policies were based on decisions due to an impending loss of the license is another thing.

In my area, a major drop in popularity occurred with the release of Episode One cards along side the classic environment. I know a lot of players didn't like that. Pod racing wasn't well received by a number of players in my area, as well as Politics and the like. The fact that the new cards also seemed to be overpowered sure didn't make the classic crowd happy. Trying to play with non episode one cards was getting to be more and more difficult as time went by (in my opinion). How much of that game play was based on motivations associated with trying to get the established player base buying the new cards before the license ran out is debatable. How Wizards of the Coast plans to implement E1 and E2 along side the classic game is going to be interesting. Personally... I never liked the idea of having Leia, Amidala, Vader, Maul and the like all on the table at the same time. Personally... I think the game mechanics should stick to solely a prequel or classic environment. The mixing of the environments won't necessarity draw in those who were not happy with it with respect to the Decipher game.

In addition, the fact that expansions were coming out every month, considering YJ, Wars and JK, for the last year just made playing and collecting the game too expensive for most people. A large drop in popularity occurred as a result. Many players just gave up in disgust. Personally I find Decipher not leveling with it's fans to be a major stain on their more than steller job with a ccg that was second to none in my opinion.

With respect to JK... my feelings are that it failed more so because of poor timing than that fact that the game wasn't a good one. Deciphers decision to release it in a non movie year may well have been based on the fact that they knew they'd be losing the license, than a question of good marketing strategy. In addition, the fact that most players were treading water trying to keep up with other games they were playing due to the explosion of expansions sure didn't help the fact that most just couldn't afford to try the new game out.

I do agree with you assessment that Jedi Knights was very rare dependent, forget about the collectibility of the game with respect to golds, silvers, first day and regular versions of the cards. Definately a very poor marking decision on their part which excluded a major segment of the market, the collectors, from getting involved in trying to put sets together.

Time will tell... and it won't be long I'm sure before we all get to see

 

Just a small little reply concerning "Cecipher's bad decisions". It has recently come to light that many of those decision were actually mandated by LucasFilm--specifically the rapid release of expansions, the combining of Episode I into the Classic era, etc.

And as for four URs being neccessary to win: bah. Show me one deck with two or more UR Lukes or Emperors and I will show you two that were just as competitive with none In fact, I would go so far as to say that the playability of the URs are quite overrated and far from "neccessary" in any deck.

 

***********
Kenix Kil wrote:

NO!!!
Decipher getting the license back would be a huge mistake. Decipher lost the license because no new people were playing the game!!!! As I have said before to succeed in Decipher's game you needed cards from some of the earlier sets and about four of each ultra rare in each deck! This does not appeal to people who want to get into a new card game. Wizards has succeeded in constantly attracting new players to their longer running games, such as Magic without substantially changing the gameplay(i.e. podracing, politics, defense shields).
Wizards in getting the license has instead of alienating an entire fanbase has opened it up for new players better than Decipher ever could.
*****************

Yeah right, ....Wizards got the game strictly because Decipher wasn't doing what it should. Tell that to the management of the Fan Club, Galoob, Kenner, Wizards of the Coast, Decipher and a number of others properties I can't put my finger on at the moment.

I think a lot of people here would accept the loss of the license more, if they "really believed" that Decipher lost the license strictly because they weren't doing a good job. It's more than likely the case that Decipher "lost it" because Lucas owns a major financial stake in Hasbro who just so happens to have been buying up star wars licensee's left and right. It's more probable that the decision of moving the license to Wizards was nothing more than the fact that Lucas wanted more of the pie under one umbrella to maximize profits than basing it's decision strictly on merit. If they didn't own Wizards... they'd probably have tried to buy out Decipher itself.

Now if lucas wasn't a major shareholder in Hasbro and it's associated properties... and they decided to give the license to WOTC, I'd say the decision was based "solely" on merit. Can Lucas do what he wants? You bet. He owns the license along with Wizards to boot.

Restrainingbolt

 

True enough, though I believe that if the Marvel comics weren't overwritten, they've certainly been ignored over the years.

That said, I can't imagine the alternative: WotC offering a compatible game AND winning the Lucas license.

Lucas' people would have been choosing between the original game (by the original company) and a game that's so similar its backwards-compatible. Why would they have chosen Wizards' game?

It wouldn't have appealled to ALL the Decipher fans because, honestly, many would have been furious that the dreaded Enemy was trying to produce its own cards for their precious game.

AND it wouldn't have appealled to many new fans, simply because it would be weighed down by the history and complexity of the old Decipher game.

(Either the new game cards would be stronger than the old cards, making the old cards useless; or weaker, necessitating a wild goose chase for old cards; or equally powerful, which means that WotC was offering nothing new.)

So, I imagine WotC had little choice but to offer a truly different gaming experience.

(Seriously, looking at your signature, I can't help but wonder: if WotC did offer a backwards-compatible game, would you accept it? Or would SWCCG still be the "One True Game"?)

 

Restrainingbolt wrote:
It's more probable that the decision of moving the license to Wizards was nothing more than the fact that Lucas wanted more of the pie under one umbrella to maximize profits than basing it's decision strictly on merit. If they didn't own Wizards... they'd probably have tried to buy out Decipher itself.



I hate to tell you this but Wizards offered at least three times to buy out Decipher after they recieved the license. Wizards tried to keep the CCG going but the head of Decipher (in a move that will kill off his company) decided against it.

Also in the response to the comment that many new players were coming to the game I am speaking from experience when I say that there were no new players in my local card shops. And despite what you say paying $5 for a pack of Reflections is not the same as getting the same older cards. And you try playing the CCG with no rares in your deck. See how far you go in a tournement. With Magic no-rare decks are, while not common, are out there. And they can win. It just depends on how the deck is built. If you need another example how about this, to win a tournement in the CCG (and I will say an Episode I tournement just to be fair) you need to but at least three boxes of a new set. With Magic you can win by buying only two boxes. And you get more cards for less money.

Also in my opinion the CCG was getting a little off balance towards the end. In an Episode I tounement if your opponent got Maul out on the table with his lightsaber you were pretty much dead if you were in the lightside. They had nothing to beat him. I was in a few tournements before the game died and in every case if Maul came out early he was there to stay.

I'm not saying the CCG was a bad game, far from it, but that in the end it just didnt appeal to new players and that it was too complicated for new players to pick up. I doubt that Decipher would ever get the license back just because it is very possible that Decipher will not exist in three years. Their main game is the LOTR game and that has a limited life of three years, maybe four if a Hobbit expansion is put out. Like I said Wizards tried to but out Decipher at least three times to keep the CCG in production but each time Decipher turned it down. Unless Decipher gets a card game, that is played and not collected like Star Trek, that is a long life hit, look for them to collapse in five years.

 

Speaking of LotR Has anyone noticed a VERY BIG drop in intrest for that game? Most of the forums I go to for it are completely dead, which is strange considering a brand new expansion just came out.

Restrainingbolt:
"I would hope you're not placing your hopes on the fact that there is "no competition." That isn't going to be a deciding factor "if" (and I did say if) the game mechanics of the new game doesn't appeal to a large audience. I know there are a number of die hard proponents here on the boards that think the new game is the best thing since sliced bread. We'll see how the game takes off when the average player decides to try it out. "

No "no competition" is not where my hopes are I just think this is one area where D hurt themselves. They had to make 3 different games in an attempt to reach as large an audience as they/Lucas wanted because the original was such an advanced game and unfriendly to newbies. WotC can learn from those mistakes and make a game which appeals to a wider audience.


Red84 said:
"Just a small little reply concerning "Cecipher's bad decisions". It has recently come to light that many of those decision were actually mandated by LucasFilm--specifically the rapid release of expansions, the combining of Episode I into the Classic era, etc. "

In regards to Lucas not letting Decipher do what they wanted I really don't think that is true. I read Hollands statement and I am inclined to beleive that those proposals were too little to late. That whole press release just reeked of spin doctoring. I don't have anything against D but I blame them for the death of the CCG just as much as any other party.

 

There is no way you can accuse Warren with spin-doctoring without equally accusing Lucas Licensing. Just no way. And what would Decipher hsve to gain anyway. the license was already lost a year ago. Even LL revealed in the past that they wanted more expansions faster and whatnot. They let Decipher kill themselves so that they could make their move at least appear legit in the eyes of the casual gamer/fan.