Is Jocasta Nu Count Dooku´s mother?

I bought Joseph Campbell´s book The hero with a thousand faces a while back and I noticed something: Footnote no. 7 in part 1 of the prologue read "Sophocles, Oedipus Tyrannus", i.e. a greek play about the famous King Oedipus who killed his father and married Jocasta, his mother.

Is it coincidence that GL named Dooku´s Sith alterego after Sophocles´ Oedipus and then named the Jedi librarian after Oedipus´ mother, or is it a subtle sub-plot?
I know that a part of the library scene in AOTC was cut, where Jocasta Nu talked to Obi-Wan about Dooku. She talked about how he always wanted to be the best Jedi ever. Sounds kind of motherish, don´t you think?

Or perhaps they are former lovers?

 

I noticed this also. I would like it to have some deeper signifigance. However, in all likelyhood, Lucas probably couldn't think of a name and so decided to steal one from Greek myth.
It would be nice if this is developed in Episode III though.

 

Because of the actors' age, it is more likely she is his wife or even sister. Lee and Althea are of similar age.

 

Yeah, but does that really matter? I mean, the Yoda doll is not nearly 900 years old!

Seriously, I could see Jocasta as being 100 years old(it has nothing to do with how old the actress looks).
But I do agree that she might be his former girlfriend or something. That could really make it into EpIII as a plot point, too(so your dream could come true, yodaschum )!

 

I bet Luke woulda gotten all Oedipal if he'd seen pix of Padme.

Ugggh, that family's screwed-up enough as is.



Rick McCallum loves you!

 

I don't think so. Oedipus Tyrannus wasn't the character's full name. That title means something to the effect of "Oedipus the Tyrant". It is also called "Oedipus Rex" translated "Oedipus the King."

So in that Tyrannous is a permutation of tyrant, I think so. But that's no more signifcant than Sidious being a permutation of insidious. Its just who the Sith are named. I'm sure there were plenty more Greek leaders who had the name "Tyrannus" attached to them at one point or another beacuse people thought they were tryannical.

 

Yeah, I guess you´re right, Jabba-wocky.
However, something hit me when I discussed this with my brother two days ago: Jocasta Nu is probably the one who erased Kamino from the Jedi archives!
Look at how she acts in the library scene. She doesn´t even aknowledge the possibility that Kamino exists and when Obi-Wan suggests that the files are incomplete, she quickly ends the conversation and moves away. Quite suspicious, if you ask me. Also note that(from what I´ve heard) in the deleted section, she seems to know Dooku quite well. I think she´s secretly working with him.
Besides, who would suspect the very person who works with the archives to erase something from them?

 

First of all Lars_Muul, interesting topic even if I think you're overanalysing it a bit.

Look at how she acts in the library scene. She doesn´t even aknowledge the possibility that Kamino exists and when Obi-Wan suggests that the files are incomplete, she quickly ends the conversation and moves away. Quite suspicious, if you ask me.

The Library scene is more telling of the arrogance of the Jedi Order as a whole, and outlines exactly what Yoda was talking about in an earlier scene.
The Jedi believe they know everything, so they rely too much on the knowledge they have and not the wisdom that comes with it.
Thats why she is offended by the suggestion Obi-Wan makes.

Also note that(from what I´ve heard) in the deleted section, she seems to know Dooku quite well. I think she´s secretly working with him.
Besides, who would suspect the very person who works with the archives to erase something from them?

Well I'm sure Jocasta Nu, as the librarian, would know just as much about any other Jedi as she does about Count Dooku. Plus when you've probably grown up side by side with that Jedi, its possible you'd know them very well.

Besides I still think our Padawan stroking the Darkside is the one who deleted the Kamino system

 

Thanks, JKB!

Besides I still think our Padawan stroking the Darkside is the one who deleted the Kamino system

Hmm, is it alright if I take your answers with a pinch of salt?

There is no way anyone of us can know who it is, really, but I am pretty sure the librarian did it.
We´ll have to wait and see(if we ever find out)!

 

but isnt tyrannus dookus sith name also i dont think jedi would allow a mother and a son to be in the temple at the same time wouldn that be attachment ? i mean dooku might not have known she was his mother but she would have known dooku was her son.

if i am right about jedi teachings, they would not allow that it seem they broke no rules about the order untill anakin came along .

also i agree with the libary scene it was just to show that the jedi have become so stagnated the dont believe something like that could happen ,

most of the dialogue from the jedi in movie is to show how weak they have become

 

Hmm, is it alright if I take your answers with a pinch of salt?

Hey Lars thats fine mate
Besides I wasn't really meaning to change your mind, you could very well be right...which is why I like what you've suggested.

But I'm still inclined to think Anakin was the culprit.

 

I agree that there is more going on here than people think, I believe that George is suggesting through the use of names and relationships in mythology that there is a conspiracy amongst the Jedi. Dooku is the kind of politically minded Jedi that would have convinced many other Jedi to rally to him, Jocasta being one of them (I doubt there was any intimate relationship) and it was indeed her that deleted the system from the files - possibly the related files as well pertaining to Kamino Sabre Darts and the likes. Dookus ability to "turn" Jedi to his cause is shown in the scene where he try's to turn Obi-Wan, you see Dooku enter the cell full of confidence like a man that has done this sort of thing before, and when he fails he leaves the room in a huff, sulkily saying that he might have trouble getting Obi released. I wouldn't be surprised that there are agents of Dookus throughout the Jedi academy/universe just waiting for his signal, what better way to conduct a Jedi purge if you have them kill each other for you, then you just have to deal with the survivors, which could consist of Obi, Yoda, and Anakin plus whatever Dookus agents are left. This would answer the question of why in the OT didn't Vader pursue Obi and Yoda. I can also imagine a scene where Anakin has managed to track the "fallen" Jedi to a location where he gives into his hate and slaughters them all like animals (second nature to the kid now), becomes Vader (minus helmet) faces Obi-Wan because Obi didn't help him/tells him what he did was wrong and the lava duel ensues, he gets messed up and recieves help from Palpatine in a 'selling soul to satan' type scene!

 

effortless_skill: You´re right. I don´t think she´s his mother, but I do think there´s a connection.

JKB: I understand that you were just giving your opinion. However, the Anakin opinion.... It´s very odd!

Emperors_Foot: Good thinking. Dooku might have several agents throughout the Jedi order. However, I don´t think his intention is to destroy the Jedi. I think he was very sincere when he told Obi-Wan that he wanted to destroy the Sith and that´s probably what he´s been telling the others as well.

 

do you guys really think that corruption is that rampant in the Jedi Order? Man, that would be weird. They would be almost as bad as the senate. It would be an interesting twist however,to see the uncorruptable jedi as shady as some of the senators. Of course they probably would be characterized as trying to do the right thing and they simply got caught up in the politics of it all

 

Thanks Lars_Muul, the more I think about it, the more I think you may be right in saying that Dooku isn't up for wholesale slaughter. However, another thought of mine is that Palpatine will use Dookus agents to commit acts of treason and terrorism against the republic, so as he (or Jar Jar) can pass a bill in the senate outlawing the Jedi and kick starting the purges.
Dooku seem the type of guy that would try and start his own Jedi order (consisting of his converted Jedi), with which he would probably try and destroy the Sith with, Palpatine of course would know about this, and would then tell Anakin about the fallen Jedi and Dooku as being the source of the corruption, then Anakin with his head full of "restore balance to the force" would go off on some "damn fool crusade".

maybe we should start a new thread to discuss this as it is kinda off topic....

 

JKB: I understand that you were just giving your opinion. However, the Anakin opinion.... It´s very odd!


Well it is odd, and I've encountered alot of people who don't likt it and put alot of barriers in front of the idea.
But I think its another tragedy of Anakin's character. Doing what he thinks is for the good of the galaxy, is actually feeding into the hands of his "friend" Palpatine and will ultimately lead Anakin towards his future Master.

But hey Lars mate it'll be a good laugh if Jocasta Nu is the traitor.

 

Yes, certainly!
I don´t think it´s too far-fetched to assume that Anakin erased Kamino because Palpatine told him to, because he probably would, but I don´t think that´s what happened. It would give me the ultimate shock, though! [face_shocked]

Emperors_Foot: I´ve been thinking something along those lines too. That´s a good idea you came up with, that Palpatine uses the Jedi Dooku had intended to use against him!

BTW: I don´t think we need to start a new thread, cause it really has to do with whether Jocasta is involved with Dooku or not.

 

This discussion between Emperor's_Foot and Darth_Muul has aroused my suspicions in relation to Mace Windu. When he turn ups on Geonosis, he says to Dooku "Party's Over" - a bad Hollywood cultural reference to his "tough black guy" roles? (Pulp Fiction, Jackie Brown etc) or an indication of an alliance with Dooku that would allow him to be on more "intimate" speaking terms with him. It is no secret that Windu is the strongest Jedi next to Yoda and close to the dark side in his use of technique (as indicated by his purple lightsaber). Given these facts, is it unremarkable that a Jedi as highly ranked and as powerful could succumb to dark forces? My mentality is that like Anakin and indeed Dooku before him, Windu is too in league with the, at the very least, the Dark Jedi. Consider this last fact. There is no little irony in Dooku's comment at the penultimate arena battle scene in which fighting comes to a halt and Dooku addresses the battle worn Jedi. He says (to this effect) "You have fought well Master Windu - worthy of recognition in the Jedi archives". If Dooku is in league with Jocasta Nu, then this comment is quite telling. Similarly, it again indicates a proximity between Windu and Dooku that goes beyond a random enemy type conversation (it is analogous to Darth and old Ben in OT "... now I am the master") and says to me that Dooku may be lamenting the loss of a worthy ally.

 

Yes, this has been discussed alot on this board. Is Mace Windu a traitor?
It´s certainly possible that he was involved in the clone affair and I have some times pondered this question: "What is Mace Windu´s purpose in the saga?"
Is his purpose to just stand around, being wise on the council and cool in battle, or does he actually provide something to the story? In that case, what could that be?
Well, either he´s a traitor or he´s not. If he´s not(which I tend to think is the case), he probably just symbolizes the Jedi order. Think about it: He is the standard Jedi, which is wise and powerful, but gets deceived by the machinations of Sidious. Every time I think of the Jedi order, I see Mace Windu.
Anakin´s betrayal of the Jedi in EpIII will probably be symbolized by his betrayal and murder of Mace(no spoiler, just my guess). That would also symbolize the fall of the Jedi order.

 

i hope we never see or hear about jocasta again

 

I didn't even bother to read this post.

 

i

 

I think I have just found some evidence that Jocasta and Dooku are at least aligned together.

On the OS (canon) Jocasta is listed in the cast list as "Madame Jocasta Nu", and Dooku is of course "Count Dooku". Notice that they both have titles that would be befitting a person in power, not that of a servant of the Republic Jedi.

Also note Jacastas costume, it is the only Jedi costume that has stylised patterns on it, another sign that she thinks herself above the Jedi! Just like Dooku.

Jacasta is a traitor, her position as head of records would put her above suspicion, and allow her privacy to study Sith arts, not to mention her ability to influence as many Padawans as she likes in order to form a army of dark Jedi for Dooku right under the noses of the Jedi counsel. This dark subterfuge would explain the weakening of the Jedis ability to sense the darkside, for if your experiencing something for long enough and incrementally enough, you would have no idea till its too late!!

 

Well, what I am about to draw from isn't officially canon (as it is excluded from the final cut of the film) but it is on the 'public record'. SW Obscurities has the dialogue from a deleted scene in which Jocasta spends some considerable time expounding on the history of Dooku's departure and subsequent return. This is however, not before she gazes longingly at Dooku's bust in the library, where she also touches the representation of his face, commenting that "He has a powerful face, doesn't he? He was one of the most brilliant Jedi I have had the privilege of knowing." This suggests a proximity between them of an intimate kind. Obi-Wan mentions the lost 20 and questions why he he left, where Jocasta says " . . . Count Dooku was the most recent and the most painful. No one likes to talk about it. His leaving was a great loss to the Order." The reference to the Jedi Order covers for her sense of loss. She continues to stare at the bust in what appears to be a wistful and dreamy gaze, expounding on how he always strived to be a greater and stronger Jedi. She quickly calls it to an end when she obviously feels that she has said to much, deferring to Obi-Wan and his inquiry.

What to make of it? She is in cahoots with Dooku. It was omitted from the film for exactly the reasons I have stated - it reveals TOO MUCH! As to Windu in all of this? - I am still not entirely convinced of his pure intentions and will save it for another post.

 

Maybe they are siblings ?