is joruus stronger then darth vader

luke skywalker in rotj did fairly well against darth vader and in fcat bested him in combat.
now vader in terms of skill level , in my opinion equals atleast a jedi master.
and vader is supposed to have defeated many jedi.
and in phantom menace we see a young obi van beat darth maul, who has defeated 2 great jedi masters- Andoori bondura and qui gon.

however in ttt , joruus c'aboth absolutely demolished luke skywalker.
luke never stood a chance even with leia, han, mara, karde.
it was mara who beat joruus with leia's help. luke in typical eu fashion was useless.

yet luke in the movies did so well against vader, supposedly the one who killed some of the toughest jedi.
now is this just the eu bashing luke as always, or is it possible that joruus is far more powerful then vader( personally i find that hard to believe)

 

u have to take in to acount that vader was trying to turn luke

 

Yeah, he didn't want to kill Luke like the psycho clone did. Besides, it's EU. Luke hasn't been at top form for most of it.

 

true
but in shadows of the empire
and tesb
both vader and emperor say that if luke is not strong enough to handle himself, he is not worth the effort.
and in tesb , vader despite wanting to turn him, cut off his hand.
and in rotj vader was fighting luke to prevent him from killing the emperor, he could have immobalized him, but instead was beaten
and it still does not explain the one sided ness of the fight between joruus and luke.
so do u guys think joruus is better then vader?

 

I think Vader had the added handicap of knowing Luke is his son.

 

I think if Vader at his peak (ie not ROTJ time when he was too conflicted to fight effectively) fought Joruus he would reduce him to a greasy spot on the floor. He ain't the Dark Lord of the Sith for nothing ya know.

 

vader did wipe out the jedi but at the time he had faced luke he was aged and had not faced a good swordsman in a long time
bu cboath was also aged.....

 

According to the EGtCs 1st edition,Vader was as powerful as Palpatine during RotJ.

Palptinereally wantewd Luke becaus he wanted an apprentice he could control. One that was naive and fresh. Vader was just about ready to do an Exar Kun on hos Freedon Nad me thinks(toast the emperor and his spirit)

So,imo,Vader lost because he couldn't bear to bringthe full force of his fury against Luke.

 

c'aboth was a lot more aged then vader
heck he did'nt even hv a lightsaber.
and are we forgetting yoda, mace, qui gon, or even DOOKU who seem to do preety well despite their age.
shadows of the empire
showed us that vader was still a great fighter despite his age.
so i don think that agrument will hold.
vader could'nt be more then 50

 

so by ur thoery on vader turn on palp is it true that palp might have help luke in the battle?

 

skywalker-singh...
"yet luke in the movies did so well...

Not true. Watch ROTJ again. Vader takes a fall for his kid.

Luke's sitting there flailing away, whiffing every shot. The key event is on the catwalk. Luke takes a wild swing and misses Vader. Takes another wild swing and whacks the complete opposite side of the catwalk, completely exposing himself to a killing blow.

What does Vader do?

He moves all the way over from where he was to the opposite side of the catwalk and promptly takes a dive. Then of course, he lets Luke play the hero role and allows his son to go to town on him.

 

we're missing the point
im curious if any one has explanations as to why the fight with joruus was so one sided.

 

It's hard to simply snap your fingers and crush a Dark Side Devotee with the strength and murky memories of a late Jedi Master when an insane clone of yourself is striking at you. What'd you expect him to do? Leia and the rest of them were a non-factor; C'boath collapsed a catwalk on them. A Jedi can only realistically be expected to hold off a single sabre-wielding opponenet at once. I don't see what you expected him to do.

No offense, but from reading your posts its like you've expect Skywalker to always just wave his hand and kill all the enemy.

 

im curious if any one has explanations as to why the fight with joruus was so one sided.

Was it as one sided as you see? Or is there more to the fight than meets the eye? When I read the fight with Joruus and Luke, I do not see a one sided affair. I see Luke who has just fought his clone (which no matter what anyone says has gotta mess with you something fierce) trying to find some way to save an insane man. At the same time, I see Joruus so completely lost in his madness he is not truly fighting Luke, he is letting his fury and madness destroy all including himself. Any jedi could probably fight like this, but it would accomplish nothing except destruction of all.

 

Question, and sorry if this is a little off subject!

But if Vader had survied ROTJ and would have returned as Anakin, would he havw been the most powerful force user ever.

I mean he was trained as a jedi and a sith, I know now he would be unable to use most of his sith training but still the knowlege and experance would have to be a help.

(again sorry if it's off topic)

Also Vader was clearly the most powerful jedi/sith their will ever be. He was conseved by the power of the force.

 

Insanity makes people strong. Stronger than moral, thinking, sane people.

My take on Vader was this. If he didn't tell Luke he was his father, then he would have been invincible.
You know how it is when you want to meet someone really bad, and they turn out nothing like you thought? Maybe they're more confident, or have some quality you didn't consider. Suddenly, you feel embarrassed and get really quiet?

I think that's what happened to Vader. He wanted to get Luke, so bad, then when he actually got him.....You remember how he just stood there? I think that is what did the Emperor in. He gave Vader way too much time to see his child as a person, a living being, and not an idea.
I would love to have known what was going on in Anakin's head right then. Thinking of all he missed because of the wrinkly old crone. That's why Vader "lost", he didn't put up much of a fight. He loved Luke. He could not really hurt him.

C"Boath was a crazy lunatic. he wanted to kill Luke, he wanted Mara alive, and didn't know about the others, or cared. He was focused on Luke.

 

never

AXL

1996

 

So what happened to that girl that ripped your AotC novel, AXL? And I'm sorry if this is really off-topic.

 

Darth Vader was Palpatine's most trusted servant. He was a Dark Lord of the Sith. He helped hunt down and eradicate the Jedi Knights. In the Death Star battle in ANH, he pretty much wiped out most of the Rebel starfighters single-handedly.

C'baoth was just some crazy, whacked-out clone.

No contest. Vader is much stronger than C'baoth ever was.

 

Joruus was insane and really wanted to kill Luke. Luke knew that he should also whatch his Force usage. LUke didn't want to use the darkside.

Vader wanted to make Luke angry, make him use the darkside so He could be turned by the Emporer. He even tried to "Loose" a bit, like when he offerd Luke to kill him, complete his journy to the Darkside. Luke was young and had no clue as to which side of the Force was good or bad.

 

Besides, when Luke beat Vader he was dabbling in the Dark Side.

Ppl have mentioned how difficult it is to fight someone when you want them to live. Luke wanted C'boath to live and be redeemed, he also wasn't too crash hot on the idea of killing his clone, even if it was mindless. That's what the Light Side does for you

 

Shows more Zahn making Luke weaker than he should have been.

 

Jello, did they ever verify that C'boath was directly controlling Luuke? Or was it just speculated.

 

The clone would've had tobe mindless. There's no way that Luke's memories could've been "recorded " to be later imprinted on the clone's mind. So Joruus must've been controlling Luuke.