Is lightsaber ability related to force ability in any way?

My gut feeling on this is no. We see the jedi and sith USE the force during duels, but I don't think that one's ability in the force has much of a direct impact on their lightsaber abilities. Just look at Coleman Trebor, he was a council member and got wasted by Jango in two seconds.

What is everyone else's feeling on this?

 

it actually has a direct impact on their saber skill the stonger you are in the force determines your skill with it

yoda 's form 4 skill is based on his use of the force. he would not be that agile and swift at that age with out a deep understanding of the force .

you think luke could have battled a sith lord and stood his ground. after only dealing with the force for a bout five yrs just by reading ob1's manual ?

no luke was VERY STRONG in the force ,so his understanding of it , made him so good of a fighter in so little time .

during that fight with vader in rotj with the anount of agression he used he could have easily have went to the dark side . but it was his understanding of the force that made him overcome that urge.

his saber skill alone did not beat vader. it was his understanding of the force that defeated vader.


even mace windu created a saber style based on his understanding of the force. vaapad form 7 ,this form has so much aggression it can bring you to the dark side if you are not careful .one has to be a master of himself and the force to even attempt this style .

this form is so deadly he doesent even teach it no more and he is the only master of it

also coleman trebor was not know as a skilled fighter he was more of a diplomat that was the main reason he was on the concuil for his diplomatic skills .


all of the jedi that died geonosis where form 6 users which is considered the diplomatic form , and also considerd the weakest one also

 

I've heard some people say that even to use a lightsaber, you have to have skill in the Force. These people are, of course, badly in need of brain surgery.

Exhibit A: Han Solo in The Empire Strikes Back. He slices open the Tauntaun with Luke's lightsaber.

But, whoah, say the Force-monkeys, he didn't fight with the lightsaber, he just used it! That's not the same thing!

*sigh* A lightsaber is a mechanical device. It doesn't use midichlorian batteries as a power source. The Force has nothing to do with it.
If you were an expert swordsman with a metal blade, you could be just as good with a lightsaber as soon as you got used to the difference in balance and weight, if any.
Yes, the Force helps you be a better swordfighter in the same way it made Anakin a better podracer pilot: through a certain amount of precognition and body control.
But the lightsaber is incidental. Like the expert with a metal blade going to lightsaber, a Jedi moving to a metal blade would be just as good as soon as they got used to the different weight and balance. In some ways they might be slightly worse with a metal blade as a lightsaber doesn't have an edge and can cut from any direction.

That's my take on lightsabers and how they realte to the Force, which is to say, not at all.

Oh, and one last thing before I go...it's spelled L-I-G-H-T-S-A-B-E-R. The Jedi aren't French, for crying out loud. Sheesh.

 

Lightsabre, lightsabre, lightsabre!

There's a reason Lucasfilm has both lightsaber and lightsabre as trademarked names, it's because most of the world outside the US has used the 'sabre' spelling for centuries.

Not just the French

Anyway, a lightsabre itself is just a machine...Force ability comes in handy in terms of constructing the thing (for precision and so on) and fighting with one in terms of reaction speed. Han could eviscerate a tauntaun, but I don't think he would've stood up too well to a Vader attack...

 

I like lightsabre better too...it's more classy in my taste... But truly, any of the two forms is acceptable.

The problem with handling a lightsabre is that the blade, since its energy, has no mass and hence, no weight. You can't tell where the blade is by sensing the weight in your hands. This makes it very dangerous for the untrained to use it.

But, even if you are trained in handling a sabre, if you are not Force attuned, you will not be able to block laser bolts or fight against a Jedi with any degree of success, that prowess does come from the Force.

I am interested to know about your thoughts connecting this with the saga as a whole.

 

A lightsaber's blade has weight if we can believe the Star Wars radio drama...

Or, at the very least, it has significant resistance as it is swung through the air, which amounts to much the same thing.

 

Yes, it is related to force ability. This is because the force both "controls your actions and obeys your commands."

Only force users can even construct a lightsaber, IMO.

Yes, practice, thus individual ability, can make you better at it. We know this because "if you would spend as much time practicing your saber techniques...you would rival Master Yoda as a swordsman."

Han could use it to open the Tauntaun, but never in battle.

 

Its elementary physics. As a pure energy blade, a sabre has no weight. The handle does have weight, but the blade does not.

 

I don't care what physics say if the movies or other material decides to contradict it. After all, this is science fiction, not fiction-about-actual-science. And the Radio Drama makes it prettyclear that swinging the saber causes a lot of resistance.

 

Yes, it is related to force ability. This is because the force both "controls your actions and obeys your commands."

That's true. But that doesn't mean that the lightsaber is related at all. This would be true of anything. Luke uses the same abilities flying his X-wing in ANH. The relationship is there, but it isn't specific to lightsaber use.


Only force users can even construct a lightsaber, IMO.


And how does that work, exactly? A lightsaber is a mechanical device, it should be something anybody could construct. What aspect of making it requires use of the Force? Short of the blueprints only being available to Jedi, it doesn't make sense that the Force would have anything whatsoever to do with constructing it at all, unless you know something the rest of us don't.


Yes, practice, thus individual ability, can make you better at it. We know this because "if you would spend as much time practicing your saber techniques...you would rival Master Yoda as a swordsman."


Again, that could be true about anything. And you'll note that the quote says nothing about the use of the Force, only about practicing saber technique.
Is it not true that a regular Earth-bound swordsman would get better with practice too? It has nothing to do with the lightsaber itself.


Han could use it to open the Tauntaun, but never in battle.


Yes, he could. He couldn't hold his own against a Jedi, just as much as I could never hold my own against a samurai; the disparity of skill levels would be too great.
But if you gave lightsabers to a couple hundred or thousand people who had no Force ability whatsoever, they could probably make war on each other just as easily as, say, conscripted peasantry in a medieval battle in Dark Ages Europe.

Explain to me exactly what part of swinging a sword, whether it has a blade of steel or a blade of energy, requires the Force.

 

a non jedi would not have any knowledge of how to build a saber .and its obvious because after the jedi purge sabers became ancient relics .the knowledge of their construction was lost untill luke made a new one .also if i am sure a jedi goes in a trance to build one .plus sabers use crystals that mabye only jedi can activate upon comstruction

and energy has no weight i think you are going a little to deep into the matter .han solo could not handle a saber , remeber this is georges story . and he said only jedi can wield sabers effectivley . even if han studied he might not be that good because he is not a force user .

 

In ANH, look at Luke's training session in the Falcon. At first, when he's wielding his saber against the remote, his movements are awkward and clumsy. But when he puts the blinders on and really uses the Force, he moves like an experienced swordsman. This scene proves that Force ability is absolutely necessary in wielding a lightsaber effectively.

 

EXACTLY QUI GON KIM

 

I probably should have been a little more specific with my first post.

What I would was asking was how much does the force impact a duel between two lightsabers. Someone stated that the force gives the user some precognition abilities when dueling. If that is so, how come Darth Maul didn't know what Obi-Wan was planning to do at the end of TPM. It wasn't like Obi-Wan tried to HIDE the fact that he had an idea.

Also, at the end of ROTJ, it doesn't really look like Luke is using any sort of fluid movement in his attack. It looks like he is just swinging away.

I agree that the force gives jedi quicker reflexes, etc. But, it also gives the Sith those same skills. Now those quicker reflexes obviously come in handy when deflecting laser bolts. But it would seem that in a Jedi/Sith duel, they would negate each other and it boils down to who is better with a sword.

I hope this makes a little more sense.

 

Let's look at the Saga as a whole to work with your question (as well to bring this thread into the realm of this forum.)


In the Saga, it appears that skill with the sabre is directly linked to skill with the Force. A Jedi in his prime is more powerful both in the Force and with his dueling skills than a learner. You can see how Obi-Wan is more skilled in Force use than Anakin or Luke and hence appears to be a better swordsman. Both Luke and Anakin have raw Force power but they aren't as skilled or as refined as Obi-Wan.

You can also notice the differences in ESB Luke and ROTJ Luke. In ESB, Luke is very raw in his Force skill and we can also see that he gets his pants kicked by Vader. In ROTJ, Luke is more skilled in Force use and in sabre skills.

We can also see this in Yoda and Dooku, both incredibly powerful in the Force and both incredible swordsmen.

I hope I'm making sense...I'm really sleepy.

However, playing devil's advocate, you can say that the two are not really all that closely connected. There is the Dooku line to Yoda that said that the duel would not end with the use of the Force, but with their skills in sabre combat.

I really don't have an answer for you since I can see how both sides of the argument would work...

What do you guys think? In the context of the SW Saga, is Force ability closely related to sabre skill?

 

In ANH, look at Luke's training session in the Falcon. At first, when he's wielding his saber against the remote, his movements are awkward and clumsy. But when he puts the blinders on and really uses the Force, he moves like an experienced swordsman. This scene proves that Force ability is absolutely necessary in wielding a lightsaber effectively.

It proves nothing of the sort. What it shows is that using the Force makes one better, it ives one abilities one wouldn't have otherwise. It shows no link whatsoever to whether or not using a saber requires the Force.

If a Jedi were to pick up a sword, and honest to goodness steel blade, it would be no different.

The Force does not make using a lightsaber possible, it only enhances the Jedi's ability to wield one.

I mena, come on...are you sreiously trying to tell me that if you gave a fencing or Kendo master a lightsaber and a week or two to practice with it, they couldn't wield one in battle against an opponent of comparable skill? If that's what you're trying to tell me, then explain exactly why not.

If you're trying to say that a Force-null person couldn't hold their own against a Force-sensitive person, I agree...but I think that would be true with any weapon, not just a lightsaber. I see no link whatsoever to lightsabers and the Force. If I'm missing something, please, by all means, present your evidence. But pointing at a Force user being good with a lightsaber isn't enough...we have to see a Force-null being bad with one too, and they have to be shown to be bad as a direct result of not having the Force at their command, not just because they've never wielded a sword of any kind before. Show me a swordsman who's good with steel being not good with a lightsaber. Then and only then will you have a case.

 

What I would was asking was how much does the force impact a duel between two lightsabers. Someone stated that the force gives the user some precognition abilities when dueling. If that is so, how come Darth Maul didn't know what Obi-Wan was planning to do at the end of TPM. It wasn't like Obi-Wan tried to HIDE the fact that he had an idea.

I think this boils down to overconfidence.

I mean, look at Darth Maul as Obi hangs down that pit. He's taunting the poor boy, showering him with sparks and stuff. He's pretty sure he's got Obi dead to rights and not really paying much attention. Totally overconfident.

The Dark side surely gives a certain amount of precog, but I think one has to actually be stretching out with one's feelings, acting on instinct, to get a sense of what's coming next...and by nature, the Dark side doesn't exactly promote calm reflection...

 

>>>If you're trying to say that a Force-null person couldn't hold their own against a Force-sensitive person, I agree...but I think that would be true with any weapon, not just a lightsaber.

Jango vs Obi Wan in AOTC indicates that's not strictly true...

 

My opinion is that with practice, it is possible for a non-Jedi to become as good as, if not better than a Jedi at lightsabre duelling, no more. However, other tricks like deflecting blaster shots would not be an available option for non-Jedi, as it requires Force sensitivity to be able to detect them from all directions. Thus, one who is not in tune with the Force would clearly have much difficulty in trying to stop a blaster bolt from a random direction.

However, just as it is possible to become a top swordsman with practice, the same should be possible with a lightsabre. After all, it is merely a matter of switching the blade of the weapon.

In that sense, the Jedi may have an advantage as the Force would guide them in handling their weapon and may give them more agility. However, a true master swordsman should be able to overcome these disadvantages on his end.

 

My opinion is that with practice, it is possible for a non-Jedi to become as good as, if not better than a Jedi at lightsabre duelling, no more

Ahh, but couldnt we say that while a person can become proficient with the sabre, they'd always be second rate if dueling a Jedi?

After all, the Jedi arent bound by the same rules that normal people are bound by. Faster, stronger, better reflexes, foresight.

A normal person can become proficient. But they'll never even approach a Jedi's skill.

 

Okay, now you guys might shoot me for spinning this in a new direction, but I was watching ROTJ last night and a thought occured to me.

Why do the jedi even need a lightsaber? If they are keepers of the peace, carrying around a weapon seems a little out of character. At the beginning of TPM, the jedi believe the sith are extinct. Now as we have seen from the movies only, the sith are the only ones who would ever attack a jedi with a lightsaber. This being the case, why would the jedi need their weapon?

I can already hear the argument that they use them to defend themselves against other weapons, etc. In ESB, we see Vader block laser blasts with the force. I have always wondered why jedi don't do this. It would seem that if Yoda could block force lightning, then ANY jedi should be able to block laser blasts.

However, even ignoring that argument, Luke walks right into Jabba's palace without his lightsaber planning to free Han, Leia, and Chewbacca. Now, Jabba's palace was full of firepower, yet Luke had the confidence to walk in their without any weapons.

I'm sorry if I have skewed this whole thread in another direction, but I feel the two ideas are related. Now obviously, without lightsabers, the Star Wars saga would be much less exciting, but in theory, it seems like jedi's beliefs would erase the need for a lightsaber.

Any thoughts?

 

Ahh, but couldnt we say that while a person can become proficient with the sabre, they'd always be second rate if dueling a Jedi?

After all, the Jedi arent bound by the same rules that normal people are bound by. Faster, stronger, better reflexes, foresight.

A normal person can become proficient. But they'll never even approach a Jedi's skill.

I don't think anybody can dispute this. I certainly don't.

I only dispute the notion that a Force-null can't use a lightsaber...at all. I think the thinking behind that premise is inherently flawed.

A Jedi, or someone who is Force-trained, will have the advantage over someone who isn't. That's just indisputable. Even someone who's unskilled but Force-sensitive has a certain amount of advantage in things...we have Luke and Anakin to prove that, with the Death Star trench-run and the podracing. Obviously those sorts of reflexes and precog abilities will translate very well to swordplay.

But the notion that a lightsaber and the Force are somehow linked directly--rather than, as you said, the Force simply giving someone a huge advantage, but that a lightsaber is inherently usable by anybody willing to take the time to train in it--is something that the evidence cannot support.

I also think that having abilities in the Force doesn't make you inherently good with a lightsaber. After all, Obi-Wan criticizes Anakin for not spending enough time studying his swordplay in AOTC...but says nothing about his abilities in the Force. Kind of subtle, but I think the implication is that skill with a lightsaber is a lot more than just Force abilities. You have to be good with a sword and with the Force to be good against other Jedi.

Just my two Republic credits worth...

 

Why do the jedi even need a lightsaber? If they are keepers of the peace, carrying around a weapon seems a little out of character.

"Keeping the peace" is not the same as "being peaceful". I mean, heck, to step out of the Star Wars universe for a moment, take a look at The Peacekeepers from "Farscape"...they're the most ruthless, wepaon-oriented culture you'll ever find; oldiers, every last one of them.

Some peopel call cops "peace officers"...yet they carry guns.

There are plenty of justifications for arming those meant to protect us and to protect the peace: "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance," "Peace through superior firepower," etc, etc...

Yoda says that a Jedi uses the Force only for knowledge and defense, never for attack. You hold up the example of Darth Vader blocker blaster bolts with the Force. Darth Vader...who was once Anakin Skywalker...thought to be possibly the most powerful Jedi, the highest midichlorian count ever... I think it's safe to say that not all Jedi can block blaster rounds.

And can the Force block, say, the teeth of a Rancor? Maybe...if you're really powerful like Yoda. But the rest of us would probably want something that commands a little more authority...just in case. why handicap yourself? Be prepared.