"Is the dark Side Stronger?"

Luke asks Yoda this question in ESB. Yoda tells him, "No. Quicker, easier, more seductive".


Either Yoda was trying to shield Luke from the real truth (That Sith's will kick their asses easily) or I am missing something.

Case in Point: Qui-Gon (Jedi MASTER AND Obi Wan both faught one sith and Qui-Gon died) What?!?!

Then, Count Dooku becomes a Sith, and can knock off two jedi's in 10 mins, and almost do well against Yoda, who has trined longer than Dooku has been alive.

Only like was able to make a good showing.

What gives??

 

In Dooku's case, he was trained by Master Yoda himself, so that would naturally make him a more powerful Jedi. And Dooku was once a member of the Jedi council. So I would say the darkside only enhanced what he was already capable of doing.

However, you are right when you say the darkside is stronger. On the AOTC DVD Audio Commentary, Lucas states the darkside is the stronger side of the force, although it is the wrong path to go down.

 

Remember that whole "certain point of view" thing.

I realise that Yoda probably was shielding Luke from the truth, but I also believe that the Dark Side is NOT as strong as the Good side.

I think that physically the Dark Side is stronger, but look at how Master and Apprentice are always trying to "off" each other. Vader does this in TESB, and Palpatine does it in ROTJ. Then Dooku in AOTC.

So, I think that the Good Side is the strongest side, so I agree with Yoda.

 

I think the darkside is only stronger during a duel.

The lightside seems more powerful for things other than aggression.

And since the Sith only care about conquering, it makes the darkside seem stronger.

 

I would say that the dark side is more powerful, but I wouldn't say it's stronger.

Personally I would like to think the two sides balance out in the end.

After all, you can't have a light if you don't have a darkness to stick it in.

 

I don't know why Lucas had to utter those words in the AOTC commentary, it has thrown alot of things off now. As they say, if it isn't broke then don't fix it.

 

I think the dark side is only stronger in the short run. Were you to study the ways of the Jedi and become as powerful as Yoda, the dark side would not be stronger.

 

Here's my whole take on the dark side stronger stuff:

If you're 900 years old, something that benefits you in the short term but eats you up in the long term is not going to be considered stronger.


Here's the whole conversation, we have only been qouting certain lines and missing other more important ones:


"Yes run! Yes, a Jedi?s STRENGTH FLOWS from the Force. But beware the Dark Side, Anger, Fear, Aggression. The Dark Side are of the Force are they. Easily they FLOW. Quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will. Like it did Obi-Wan?s apprentice."


"Vader. Is the Dark Side STRONGER?"


"No. No. Quicker. Easier. More seductive."


"But how am I to know the good side from the bad?"


"You will know. When you are calm, at peace. Passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack."


"But tell me why ? "


"No, no there is no why. Nothing more will I teach you today. Clear your mind of questions."

******

So if you read that carefully you realize two things:

1) George does not contradict Yoda

2) Yoda "contradicts" himself

Why does George not contradict Yoda?

Because Yoda says a Jedi's STRENGTH FLOWS from the FORCE. And Yoda says that the components of the Dark Side (Anger, Fear, and Agression) FLOW EASIER. Especially in a fight. So Yoda's statements say that you get STRENGTH FLOWING from the FORCE and Anger, Fear, and Aggression are catalysts for making the FORCE FLOW EASIER.

And therefore FORCE FLOW EASIER = STRONGER

As you can see Yoda implies the Dark Side is stronger. So did George. NO CONTRADICTION.

No memory lapse, no dropping the ball, no growing fat and lazy and losing care for SW. Sorry to burst your bubbles. Back to the drawing board. Try again. Better luck next swing.


OK now on to 2):
Yoda supposedly contradicts himself. He suggests that the Dark Side is stronger, and right after that Luke asks for clarification. "So what you're telling me Mr. Yoda is that the Dark Side is stronger?"

NO. Now Yoda says it's not. "Hear you nothing that I say young Luke? Did you not catch the disclaimer at the end of that? I said once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will."

Each time you use the Dark Side, it gets a little quicker, a little easier, a little more seductive. Keep using it, keep following that path, and you loose control, it consumes you. Whereas a moment of decision came up where you could decide, now it's so instinctive you fly right by that moment. Only when you are calm and a peace do you catch the moment. Only at peace can you decide what to do. "Listen carefully young Luke. Do not make the mistakes myself and my fellow Jedi did. When I say use the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack, that's what I mean. Got it?"

Well Luke finally gets it when he throws his saber down and tells the Emperor to kiss his butt because he's a Jedi like his father before him. He let's go and trusts the will of the Force. (Just like Obi-Wan had him do in the Battle of Yavin) AND (Just like he should have done in the cave on Dagobah, remember "Your weapons, you will not need them.") And will of the Force comes in and saves the day. Anakin can't bear to see Palps ravage Luke.

But at this time Luke doesn't get it. Ever wonder what his question was before Yoda cut him off - no, it's not "can I have a bathroom break .

More than likely it was this:

"But tell me why the Dark Side is not stronger if you said it flows easier, and a Jedi's strength flows from the Force?"

That is a question either Yoda wanted to save for later, or let Luke figure out.

And the same goes for us. It's a question that George is saving for Episode III, otherwise we have to figure it out.

I suspect it falls along the lines of the whole it consumes you thing. In that, keep using it and abusing it, and it will physically abuse you (to who knows what ends). And so in the end, it's not stron

 

I was thinking exactly that, but i was too lazy to type it all up

 

Is the Dark Side stronger?

The question is- stronger than what?

The Dark Side is a part of the Force, so it can't be stronger than the Force itself.

However, the Jedi's philosophy is of being servants to the Force, rather than using the Force as their tool, which is the Sith's philosophy and the key to the Dark Side.

Also, bear in mind that "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defence- never for attack." So hypothetically, if Yoda fought his equal, who had just turned to the Dark Side and is happy to use the Force to attack, then how could "good" Yoda possibly win, given that he's restricted himself with what powers he is prepared to use?

So, as Lucas said, the Dark Side is stronger in terms of individual power, if you want to become "the most powerful Jedi"- the Jedi philosophy has no concept of personal power. They know that the Force is a greater thing than a mere tool, so they give themselves to this greater power- which is why Obi Wan can become "more powerful" than Vader "can possibly imagine"- because although Vader knows that the Force is an incredible power, he thinks of it as something to use instead of something to serve.

bjbrickm

>>>>But at this time Luke doesn't get it. Ever wonder what his question was before Yoda cut him off - no, it's not "can I have a bathroom break .

I always thought it was going to be something like "why can't I use the Dark Side to do good- like kill Vader and the Emperor?"

And I think that Dooku in Episode III will answer that question...

 

I personally still feel the dark side is not stronger. The reason the Sith are so much better at lightsaber duels can be explained that Jedi are trained more in the art of deflecting blasters, rockets, and all those weapons the droids/bounty hunters use(in other words they need to be good against a number of opponents) while the Sith trained exclusively in lightsaber duels.

 

bjbrickm


Wonderful analysis, I had never thought of it like that before.

 

In the Annotated Screenplays book by Bozereau, there is a great passage by Lucas where it says that the Dark Side is stronger because it's about power.

In the ESB early drafts, Lucas even had Yoda mention to Luke not to use the Force to move objects too much as that practice is the dark side. Fighting is a part of the dark side too.

All of the physical uses of the force are a Jedi tapping into his dark side.

The book also mentions how in SW Obi-Wan originally talked to Luke about how misuse of the Force would lead to the force controlling you rather than you controlling it.

EDIT:
Perhaps the dark side has always been stronger up until Qui-Gon learns how to become one with the force? Maybe this is the trick that allows the Jedi to bring more balance to the force?

 

At the time of the PT the dark side is stronger .
Remember the Force is unbalanced ? and the Jedia re expecting someone forseen in a Prophecy to bring the balance back

 

Ultimately no but for the most part yes.

 

"Ultimately no but for the most part yes."



Thanks for being so clear about that.

 

Ultimately no but for the most part yes.

Sounds like something GL would say. He likes to use the word "ultimately" for practically everything (and in the process using the words in the wrong context) and he likes to contradict himself.

So what did he mean when he said the "dark side was stronger" in the AotC DVD Commentary? No matter what he said, he was contradicting Master Yoda in ESB. So is he just expressing his opinion, and in the process implying that he and Yoda don't agree on this issue?

 

Well, not the Force cant be stronger than itself but the question is whether which method of using it, labelled "dark" and "light", is stronger. Lucas clearly states using dark methods is stronger. And some will argue that and some who see it being the stronger side would say it's maringally stronger. Well, thats not the case. The dark side is much stronger than the light. It's so strong that if you took one step past the light side, you'd be sucked in with a very slim chance of getting free of it. The Jedi outside of Yoda say they dont delve into the dark side but the dark side is so strong that even without taking that step, they've become arrogant and overconfident, traits of the dark side. You dont see them gravitating to being more light-based. Yoda is the only Jedi who willingly looks into the dark side in AotC because he knows what it can do and he knows how to find his way back from the dark side. Yoda is a Jedi unlike most.

Isurus the White

 

The dark side is more powerful and stronger in destructive aspects, such as duels, using the force to destroy, crush, choke, throw things around etc.

The light side is better at things like mind tricks, staying calm, healing, etc.

SO even though Yoda might have been right in the sense that the light side is stronger, but what he didnt say was that it is stronger in the non harmful aspects of the force.
Which is ofcourse not at all what luke was asking. In answer to luke, yes, the dark side is stronger.

If Luke had the oppertunity to see Maul or Dooku in action no doubt he would have sat down and given up. Since he was up against doddering vader, he couldnt decide which side was stronger.

 

The dark side of the Force is stronger because it gives you power. It gives you control over those who are seduced by emotions such as fear, anger and hate. Most people get seduced by those.

It´s like the Ring of Power in TLOTR. It gives you control over those who are weakhearted. In the end, though, it will consume you. It will take control of you!

But the dark side in itself is not stronger than the light side. They´re equally strong. Since most of us are so easily seduced however....

 

Is the Dark Side stronger...No!


But the Dark Side could be the true nature of the Force.

 

"he was trained by Master Yoda himself, so that would naturally make him a more powerful Jedi."
A Jedi's strength lies in the individual, not the one who taught him.

 

Assuming the dark side is stronger, what's Yoda going to say? "Yes, stronger it is. Turn to the Dark Side we must." Luke was in a precarious position here - he was being trained to go up against two Sith Lords, and already has dark elements of his personality being brought out ("Much anger in him, like his father"). Yoda sure isn't going to tell him the Dark Side is stronger at a time like that. The last thing he needs is for the last hope of the galaxy to turn to the Dark Side for a lark.

The dark side is physically stronger, but the people who use it are weak. They take the easy route when they can't handle the hard one. It's only stronger in the sense that bullies are stronger - they can push people around, but they are much weaker people on the inside.

 

I think that the darkside makes you physically stronger but I don't know if it does the same mentally or not. I think the Sith are better duelers because of their hatred and lust for power not because they are using the stronger side of the force.

 

The Dark Side of the Force IS more powerful.

However, a user of the 'light' side is more powerful.