Is the Sun really hot?

The question is, on the face of it, almost insane. No-one could possibly doubt that the sun is the only source of external heat on earth. And, certainly, the part that we see, the sun's photosphere, is some 5,800 degrees Kelvin. The solar corona, which extends into space, may be as hot as one million degrees Kelvin.

But what exactly is underneath this hot atmosphere? The explanation universally accepted without question is that it must be an even hotter mass of hydrogen gas, fusing into helium and other elements at temperatures of 15 million degrees Kelvin in a continuous thermonuclear explosion -- a giant H bomb.

This universal view is based on the mathematical work of Arthur Eddington in the 1930s and Hans Bethe's theoretical confirmation in the 1950s (for which he won the Nobel prize in 1967). Above all else, we have the overwhelmingly awesome experimental confirmation of the nature of nuclear fusion by the test detonations of H bombs in the Pacific.

However, physicists have always been aware of nagging problems with the conventional view of how stars form and how they burn. And now, Italian physicist Renzo Boscoli, has published details of a theory that is staggering: the theory that far from being hot underneath its atmosphere, the sun may, at its core, be a ball of ice in which not hot, but cold fusion reactions are taking place.

The conventional view of how stars form is that a cloud of interstellar hydrogen collapses under gravity until, under enormous pressure, the atoms of hydrogen become so hot they fuse to form helium. Once ignited, the core of the newly formed star burns continuously, transmuting hydrogen to helium, helium to carbon and so on, until the fuel is exhausted and the star's life is over.

There are some problems with this view. For instance, when gases are compressed, as under gravity, they also heat up, and this makes them expand. As temperature increases, the outward force due to expansion will become greater than the force of gravity compressing the gas and the gas will simply dissipate in space again. How then could the condensing hydrogen cloud ever ignite spontaneously?

There are many other puzzling features of the sun: how can a surface at 'only' 5,800 degrees Kelvin give rise to a corona of 1 million degrees Kelvin? Why does the surface rotate faster at the equator than at higher latitudes? Why does the planet Mercury have a strangely perturbed motion?

In two ground-breaking papers published in Infinite Energy magazine, Renzo Boscoli offers some astounding answers to these puzzles.

Boscoli points out a phenomenon discovered in the 1930s but -- like many such anomalies -- virtually ignored since. French physicist Georges Ranque discovered that if you make a body of gas rotate, as in a turbine, the hottest (most energetic) molecules are somehow separated to the outside of the mass, while the gas at the centre gets colder. It is relatively easily experimentally to make a 'Ranque tube' where the difference in temperature between air in the middle and air at the outside is more than 100 degrees C, simply by causing the air to rotate.

This experimental result appears to contradict the laws of thermodynamics and at present remains unexplained. But Boscoli points out that its implications for the formation of stars may be immense.

While a cloud of hydrogen condensing under gravity is an unlikely candidate for a new star because heat would make it expand and dissipate again, a rotating cloud of hydrogen would give rise to a remarkable object -- one where the temperature at its exterior would continue to rise while the temperature at its core would continue to fall. At first the hydrogen core would become so cold it would liquify and finally solidify.

Says Boscoli, 'If this mass of gas . . . would begin to rotate upon itself, it would necessarily assume a progressively flatter ellipsoidal form as its rotational velocity increased. And . . the Ranque effect would begin to be exerted, therefore producing a cooling at the centre and a heating of the periphery of the ell

 

Holy cow The_Gatherer
This is your third topic this morning I think! Anyways to stick on topic I think that the sun is hot, what would Earth be heated by? I didn't read everything up there but I think that the Earth is definitly heated by the sun

 

Plagiarism is bad, mmkay?

In the future, do post the link to the article you are reproducing, or at least post the author and publish date.

 

Yeah, that would be cool It would also back up the statement for people who have doubts.

 

Tsk tsk. Copying an entire article and giving the impression that what you typed was original.

http://www.alternativescience.com/is_the_sun_hot.htm

Word for word, muchacho.

 

Did I give the impression that it was original... I just simply forgot to post a link.

Hmmm... do I sense a lack of trust?

 

It has nothing to do with trust Just for backup reasons I think you'll get more replies as well!

 

The sun may be hot, but I am hotter

 

Did I give the impression that it was original... I just simply forgot to post a link.

Sure you just "forgot". Right. Did you also forget to post it in quotation marks, and italics? In fact, you didn't add anything to the article yourself. Not even a "Discuss". Oh wait, you created the title "Is the Sun really hot?". Good show. Bravo, ex-mod, Bravo.

 

BoxOfficeMan Stop giving him a hard time, really

 

Fine. Sorry, for wanting to promote discussion.

 

BOM, I think it was fairly obvious that the article was written by someone else, and Gath has aplogised. Now play nice and discuss the topic at hand, or go away plz.

 

Anyways to stick on topic I think that the sun is hot, what would Earth be heated by? I didn't read everything up there but I think that the Earth is definitly heated by the sun.

Read it again. We're talking about the core of the sun, not the surface, which we know is hot.

Interesting theory. Thanks for brining it to our attention, Gath.

 

But plagiarism isn't against the rules here?

 

No, it is against the rules. Gath made a mistake, and it has been corrected. No need to lynch the poor fellow.

 

It's not as if we could send any probes to find out either. Nothing we've got would be able to stand up to the heat.

Interesting topic Gath I look forward in reading some of the replys from our "serious thinkers"

 

No, it is against the rules. Gath made a mistake, and it has been corrected. No need to lynch the poor fellow.

That first post is still blatant plagiarism.

I don't see how an apology changes anything.

 

Everyone makes mistakes. The important thing is that is has been corrected. Gath has made many such threads in the past, and he's usually quite good about citing his source. He is a respected member here, and I see no need to jump on his back about something so trivial.

 

Everyone makes mistakes.

Any when they're against the rules, they get punished for that, I would think.


The important thing is that is has been corrected.

No it hasn't. The opening post is still blatant plagiarism. Someone else had to call him on it, or he would've never brought up the fact that he conveniantly copied and pasted an article verbatim without citing a source or using quotation marks.


Gath has made many such threads in the past, and he's usually quite good about citing his source.

Oh this is fine logic.


He is a respected member here, and I see no need to jump on his back about something so trivial.

How is this anymore trivial than anything else here?

 

ANYWAY . . . very interesting. It certainly makes sense to me, at least in the way it is presented. I suppose at first glance thinking that the inside of the sun is cold would be silly and not make any sense, but hey, look at quantum physics.

Thanks for posting that.

*goes off to ponder*



[edit] Why not politely ask him to edit the first post, to indicate more clearly that he didn't write it himself?

 

By derailing this thread and attacking Gath, you're pretty close to breaking the rules yourself. He has contributed more to this board and TFN than most of us ever could.

 

A thread has began derailed if it is a blatant plagiarization without any admission or sign of such plagiarization anywhere in the original post.

And the way you keep citing his "standing at the boards" and all this as some kind of defense is hilarious, but keep it up if it suits you.

 

No, it has been derailed if people force a good thread off topic by filling it with personal attacks.

Just keep digging.

 

It's an interesting theory, and it does make sense in the way it's presented. It is kinda unbelievable due to the fact we're taught as kids that the sun is HOT, but almost everything we've learned has been tweaked or downright completly changed, so I wouldn't discount this.

And Gath made a mistake and apoligized, stop focusing on it.

 

Wow. This is a really awesome article you found Gatherer. Its the most interesting one I've read. After reading this, I believe that maybe it is cold in the centre of the sun.

Nada, please understand the boards better before you bash a long-time member, thank you.

All you need is love!